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Aug 5, 2005
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This is something that's been badly annoying me: how uneventful and insignificant the Spanish Civil War is.
Worse yet, I know almost nothing of the intricacies and happenings of Spain at the time, and so cannot whip up a few events to spice it up.
That's where you come in: if any one of you wants to help me improve the Spanish Civil War, please suggest ideas for any sorts of things that I can incorporate.
I believe I've already seen something of the sort here, but unfortunately do not remember either what it was called or specifically what was in it.
From the basic things I know about the Civil War, my only goals for now are to incorporate the following:
- possibility of further intervention on the part of the great powers
- possibility of a third side (the anarchists) forming in response to the Soviet domination of the Republican Front

Hopefully this list will become bigger and far more detailed over time, but for that to happen I need a degree of support in giving me ideas (whether historical events or what you believe might have happenned had x happenned and in turn the consequences of that) as well as some interest in this mod.
No tech or other sort of help is needed (unless you specifically want to contribute) as all work will be done by me.
So if you have any idea for an event, event series, historical happenings or any generaly trivial things few have heard of which could have in theory been important, I ask you to post them here.
 
This would be a good experience to learn how to do events from.
 
might i suggest a portugese intervention?
or basque/catalon independance movements?
Click to expand...
Anything more specific?
For example, why would Portugal intervene?
Automatically at the start of the war?
When a certain thing happens?

When would the basque/catalon independence movements really start?
Would they just be right away or would there be a background story with several options?
 
Seylanov said:
Anything more specific?
For example, why would Portugal intervene?
Automatically at the start of the war?
When a certain thing happens?

When would the basque/catalon independence movements really start?
Would they just be right away or would there be a background story with several options?
Click to expand...
basques and catalans joined the republicans in return for like 99.9% independance from spain, and there was something with the carlists

porturgal would probaly stay out unless it got unwieldy
 
portugal would probably only intervene if there was some kind of targetting of portugese minority.
and the basques and catalons have been constantly vying for independance for centuries, give them a match and they could blow it into a nuke
 
Seylanov said:
This is something that's been badly annoying me: how uneventful and insignificant the Spanish Civil War is.
Worse yet, I know almost nothing of the intricacies and happenings of Spain at the time, and so cannot whip up a few events to spice it up.
That's where you come in: if any one of you wants to help me improve the Spanish Civil War, please suggest ideas for any sorts of things that I can incorporate.
I believe I've already seen something of the sort here, but unfortunately do not remember either what it was called or specifically what was in it.
From the basic things I know about the Civil War, my only goals for now are to incorporate the following:
- possibility of further intervention on the part of the great powers
- possibility of a third side (the anarchists) forming in response to the Soviet domination of the Republican Front

Hopefully this list will become bigger and far more detailed over time, but for that to happen I need a degree of support in giving me ideas (whether historical events or what you believe might have happenned had x happenned and in turn the consequences of that) as well as some interest in this mod.
No tech or other sort of help is needed (unless you specifically want to contribute) as all work will be done by me.
So if you have any idea for an event, event series, historical happenings or any generaly trivial things few have heard of which could have in theory been important, I ask you to post them here.
Click to expand...


there was a spainish mod that had just what you are looking for,you will had to translate(use one of the on-line sight it easy but time comsuming) into english.it was for HOI so it will need to be tweeked for HOI 2 and DD.


this link is old,but i think it gets you to were you can download them,at least you can get some ideas for that.

http://www.hoicg.tk/

http://translate.google.com/transla....html&hl=en&lr=&rls=SUNA,SUNA:2006-10,SUNA:en
 
Seylanov said:
This is something that's been badly annoying me: how uneventful and insignificant the Spanish Civil War is.
Worse yet, I know almost nothing of the intricacies and happenings of Spain at the time, and so cannot whip up a few events to spice it up.
That's where you come in: if any one of you wants to help me improve the Spanish Civil War, please suggest ideas for any sorts of things that I can incorporate.
I believe I've already seen something of the sort here, but unfortunately do not remember either what it was called or specifically what was in it.
From the basic things I know about the Civil War, my only goals for now are to incorporate the following:
- possibility of further intervention on the part of the great powers
- possibility of a third side (the anarchists) forming in response to the Soviet domination of the Republican Front

Hopefully this list will become bigger and far more detailed over time, but for that to happen I need a degree of support in giving me ideas (whether historical events or what you believe might have happenned had x happenned and in turn the consequences of that) as well as some interest in this mod.
No tech or other sort of help is needed (unless you specifically want to contribute) as all work will be done by me.
So if you have any idea for an event, event series, historical happenings or any generaly trivial things few have heard of which could have in theory been important, I ask you to post them here.
Click to expand...

How is your mod going?if you could send me your news I would like to look though them and maybe use some of them.PM me.. :)
 
More than you wanted to know?

Seylanov said:
....
That's where you come in: if any one of you wants to help me improve the Spanish Civil War, please suggest ideas for any sorts of things that I can incorporate.
I believe I've already seen something of the sort here, but unfortunately do not remember either what it was called or specifically what was in it.
From the basic things I know about the Civil War, my only goals for now are to incorporate the following:
- possibility of further intervention on the part of the great powers
- possibility of a third side (the anarchists) forming in response to the Soviet domination of the Republican Front

Hopefully this list will become bigger and far more detailed over time, but for that to happen I need a degree of support in giving me ideas (whether historical events or what you believe might have happenned had x happenned and in turn the consequences of that) as well as some interest in this mod.
No tech or other sort of help is needed (unless you specifically want to contribute) as all work will be done by me.
So if you have any idea for an event, event series, historical happenings or any generaly trivial things few have heard of which could have in theory been important, I ask you to post them here.
Click to expand...

Sounds great!

Some suggestions:
-Portugal would *never* have gotten involved.
-Resource aid (but no more) from ARG to NAT would not be impossible. If NAT or REP isa human-controlled, this might move US 1 toward interventionism. That's a big effect, though; I wish that there was some smaller quantum that could be used. Maybe a better chance of allying with BRA later?
-You might treat intervention by major powers in more detail. All except ENG should be able to send continuing supplies even if they choose to do nothing else.
-All except ENG should have more options to send their own troops (NOT as expeditionary forces, retaining own control. I can dilate on IT and GE if you want.
-FR should be able to intervene in favor of REP. This would cause dissent, belligerence, move govt. 1 to left, intervention 1 to left, hawk 1 to right, damage relations with almost everyone except SOV (ENG down a lot). There should also be a risk of provoking a right wing coup or electoral reaction: more dissent, move intervention 2-3 to right, govt. 3-5 to right. This risk would occur three times: immediately (small chance); after a year or so if war still going, variable date (moderate chance); if REPs lose (nearly certain).
-SOV should also be able to intervene in favor of REP, although maybe not if France sent troops. Dissent cost, belligerence cost. It would be nice if SOV leaders in Spain when the purge fires are immune, but it is not critical.
-IT should be able to use subs to interfere with SOV resource shipments (they actually did) or even declare war on SOV if SOV sends troops.
-You might want to model the initial situation more carefully if REP or NAT is human-controlled. The Nationalists start with almost nothing except Spanish Morocco, and have to transport by air and sea to the mainland (temporary loans of GER air transport and IT ships for the purpose; don't worry about whether these units actually *exist.* DON'T make these GER or IT choices; if they so no it is game over, so why bother?
The Republicans start unprepared. Small standing army, reduced ORG for all units, many provinces esp. South coast undefended. When NATs land, some provinces go over to them, maybe with free MIL. REPs get free MIL everywhere else (not in the Balaeres).with a smaller army, so that many coastal provinces are ungarrisoned (Barcelona and some/all in the NW should be defended). Once the nats land, that province , but get a largish number of MIL once the Portuguese intervention would never have happened.
-Anarchists could not be a 3rd side, but an event for an anarchist/communist power struggle would be excellent. Should have some chance of triggering after a significant defeat (defined somehow). (Happens only once -- unless you want to go even deeper and allow a stalemated outcome). Communists have >50% chance of winning, plus SOV can decide to add weight to communist side at some cost in relationships and belligerence. If anarchists win, SOV aid ends, many units take steep temporary penalty in ORG, govt./econ. sliders move, penalties in relations with many countries. If communists win, FR aid ends, ORG penalties affect fewer units and are smaller, sliders move, worse relationship penalties.
-If anarchists win, there should be a chance that after not too long there is an attempt at a monarchist coup. If this wins (maybe ENG can influence at some cost) sliders move, relationships with all except SOV improve a lot. I can dilate.
-After a significant NAT defeat, Spanish Morocco could rebel.
-A possible GER/IT dispute if both have forces in Spain. Haven't though this through.
-At end of war, winner gets (smallish) relationship bonuses with appropriate parties, shifts sliders towards govt. type of those who aided it with troops.
 
How is your mod going?if you could send me your news I would like to look though them and maybe use some of them.PM me..
Click to expand...
Not well at all.
Only the post below yours gaveme what I was looking for.
(Great link btw, nice event maker).
I see there is a mod there, which will be great to use as a base.
I'm in Russia at the moment, and quite busy, so I wouldn't expect anything for a couple of weeks.
Looks like my first task will be translating the Spanish mod (via online translator and basic knowledge of Latin), and any additions I make will be on top of that.
Hmm.
First of all, I'll have to change the setup to a more China Improvement Pack way, so that all the new events go to new event folders and don't interfere with other mods.
 
-You might want to model the initial situation more carefully if REP or NAT is human-controlled. The Nationalists start with almost nothing except Spanish Morocco, and have to transport by air and sea to the mainland (temporary loans of GER air transport and IT ships for the purpose; don't worry about whether these units actually *exist.* DON'T make these GER or IT choices; if they so no it is game over, so why bother?
The Republicans start unprepared. Small standing army, reduced ORG for all units, many provinces esp. South coast undefended. When NATs land, some provinces go over to them, maybe with free MIL. REPs get free MIL everywhere else (not in the Balaeres).with a smaller army, so that many coastal provinces are ungarrisoned (Barcelona and some/all in the NW should be defended). Once the nats land, that province , but get a largish number of MIL once
Click to expand...
Could be modeled this way even if SPA and SPR are both ai controlled through scripted events. Could hardcode 100 % chance for Ai ITA and GER to pick the YES option giving the Human GER or ITA an option to say no, still leaving SPA with a positive outcome. If GER says no, a step away from interventionism, sleeps all of the SCW Condor Force and corresponding SCW experience blueprints that might come it's way, and loss of influence with the other Fascist power for a drop in belligerence and positive relations with ENG, FRA, SOV, USA etc; ITA the same. A German event sends over a certain amount of troops from Morocco within a week, followed by an ITA event that sends over more soon after (I forget the province they seized, somewhere in southwest spain I think.) Add another event that sends the forces that GER would have flown over for ITA with the trigger to not fire if the GER transfer event has fired, and do the same for ITA...SPA still gets all their troops sent if a Human GER or ITA chooses no, albeit slower.
The SPR AI just needs to be slowed down with passivity and delay commands for a month or so, then drops them after SPA gets it's foothold (% of Nat_province lost fires change of AI) OR have their forces locked either via event or by wiping out all units and awakening dormant forces in their correct SCW historical location via event and lock them. Same trigger (lost NAT province) fires event to unlock SPR units.
I don't have any files with me at the moment (I work overnights) but I just might look into coding some of this this weekend.
 
Lightsfantastic said:
The SPR AI just needs to be slowed down with passivity and delay commands for a month or so, then drops them after SPA gets it's foothold (% of Nat_province lost fires change of AI) OR have their forces locked either via event or by wiping out all units and awakening dormant forces in their correct SCW historical location via event and lock them. Same trigger (lost NAT province) fires event to unlock SPR units.
I don't have any files with me at the moment (I work overnights) but I just might look into coding some of this this weekend.
Click to expand...


Very good Ideas here,I think the key may be in the AI files.that would by far would be the easest way to slow down SPR. you can make the AI be very non-agressive,change the odd that it must have to attack so that it will bring offence operations to a snails pace.locking units is a great tool to mod and manipulate the Spanish civil war. we must alway leave the doot open for the ahistorical out come and the what if...
 
It looks like the Nationalists had captured the areas given via event already and the only thing brought over by the Germans and Italians was the Army in Morrocco. Might not be worth going through the trouble of coding events for it...
But one could through in a What if...If Italy chooses to not support the Nationalist's, maybe have them oppose the Anschluss. Say Austria appeals for Italian aid and resist's the Nazi Horde...
 
Ok, I can crudely code events and we can all pollish them up as we go.
It's always a good idea to have an outline to guide us...

According to the timeline on the always 'reliable' Wikipedia...the Nationalists uprising occured throughout the country, so the starting provinces of the Nationalists would be similar to what occurs in the Event (btw I play HOI2 1.3 with the last version of HIP, HEAVILY modified so I don't remember if the vanilla Civil War event gives random provinces to each or if it's like the areas in HIP where it's always the same ones and very rarely do the Republicans win.) If it's random we need to steal...ahem...borrow HIP's Spanish Civil War start events to get the 'Historical' provincial setup.

Next the OOB's.
Since the Army fractured and was scattered across Spain, I see using militia for the Falange and 1918 Infantry Divisions for the Nationalists Army units, with 1936 version Infantry to represent the Army in Africa. Basically the 1918 divisions would represent the scattering of units across Spain coming together and eventually organizing (via unit upgrade) into 1936 units. (In HIP there's a step between 1918 and 1936 which makes this even more of an undertaking with limited IC resources.) Alternatively we could use Dormant units with reduced manpower in the SPA file and wake them in place. This represents the core unit (2000 -3000 men) say 20 to 30 % of unit MP, remainder to be filled out with Nationalist levees via reinforcement/manpower.
An event fires giving SPA a choice to ask for ITA and GER help in moving the Army in Morrocco, which is locked upon creation, to the mainland. AI default is set to 100% yes, giving the Human SPA player Freiwillge, free will to refuse which unlocks the Army in Morrocco.
A 'Yes, ask Germany and Italy for help' triggers GER and ITA events, where yes is again defaulted for the AI's, triggering another SPA event to 'move' from Morrocco to Valencia (Remove division/Create division.)
A no by GER ( Human Only) will sleep the German line and all SCW related events for GER, resulting in lost Tech bluprints, some tech teams not waking up until later, etc... in exchange for reduced belligerence, improved relations with ENG, FRA, SOV...maybe a trade with ENG via event...
Same scenario with ITA, except if ITA says no to helping in Spain, that allows Italy to continue as the 'Protector of Austria' maybe resulting in a war with Germany over Anschloss. If Germany wins (should) against Italy...the creation of an early RSI with MAJOR implications for Ahistorical play. Should Hungary join against Germany and defend the Vatican and a fellow Catholic country. What about the Catholic populations of Germany and France? Would Hitler force the Vatican out of Rome? Oooo the mind reels...
After the SPA Army is in Spain, normal events not slept in the chain could occur.
With SPR, ALL starting units would be removed via event and Historical OOB's placed in their section. Lots of Militia, VERY few Infantry and all of it 1918 units with small starting MP. This way we can leave the AI alone for now as their forces would be too weak for an offensive.
Any other ideas?
 
Alex S. said:
Also I saw the historian Antony Beevor just released a new book on the Spanish Civil War (much larger than his previous one). Should be at most Barnes & Nobles.
Click to expand...

Really? Hm. I own the paperback and am nearly halfway through it. I'd be curious to know what all is included in this newer, larger version, as I really wanted some more info on Catalonia...
 
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