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The Templars Heritage

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Ylzania

Ylzania

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Sep 8, 2003
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I wonder how will it be handled, i mean, after the obliteration of French Templars in 1314, every Catolic country received an order from the Pope to finish Templars in their own countries. But, in fact, in Scotland, Castile and Portugal, Templars only made a name change and some relook and continued for several morec enturies. In Castile they became Knights of Santiago, and many of their treasures paid the Castilian support, bringing them to supremacy in Spain. In Portugal, with a new name, Templars helped military progress and, mainly, exploration, under Enrique "El Navegante" in the 15th century. In Scotland they represented a main power, capable of facing England, who used the Scottish support to Templars as a new reason to their own supremacy wars in british islands.

So I wonder, how it will be handled in the game?
 
Very difficult question.

Also a little fun, as it depends which version of the Templar story one believes. As well as the official version, some alternative medieval based stories, and the Papal/French version of them being satanic heretics there are many new stories, and conspiracy theories springing up all the time.

Anyone here read Holy Blood Holy Grail? Would make for some "interesting" events in the game if it were true :D
 
Could be quite interesting especially since the Military Orders are not playable. There could be lots of events which could happen automatically and then there could be some events in which the player controlling the order could make the decision. Might really make it worthwhile to have that control.:)
 
Originally posted by Sonny
Could be quite interesting especially since the Military Orders are not playable.
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Yes, a lot of crossing-fingers as a player; hoping that the underworked, overfunded, heavily trained, armed to the teeth military orders find another demense to set up shop in!

Or bribing the Pope to call a crusade somewhere, just to keep the buggers busy; "Bretheren, Dinsdale of Savoie has requested that the heretical and evil doers on the Faroe Islands be cleansed by crusade...."
 
Tnx for site info

I've read a bit more about Scottish Templars, until our days. You can see clearly their enormous influence in Scotland for centuries and the importance for Paradox of driving this point properly to give birth to a game like never seen before. The military orders, and especially templars, were the soul of the middle centuries of Middle Age, and should not be forgoten.
 
Originally posted by Dinsdale
Yes, a lot of crossing-fingers as a player; hoping that the underworked, overfunded, heavily trained, armed to the teeth military orders find another demense to set up shop in!

Or bribing the Pope to call a crusade somewhere, just to keep the buggers busy; "Bretheren, Dinsdale of Savoie has requested that the heretical and evil doers on the Faroe Islands be cleansed by crusade...."
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Yes, controlling the Pope would also be nice since he is the only one to whom the Templars and Hospitallers need to justify them selves.

But what if one player controls the Pope and another controls a military order...Oh well, we will see when the game comes out.:)
 
Re: Tnx for site info

Originally posted by Ylzania
I've read a bit more about Scottish Templars, until our days. You can see clearly their enormous influence in Scotland for centuries and the importance for Paradox of driving this point properly to give birth to a game like never seen before. The military orders, and especially templars, were the soul of the middle centuries of Middle Age, and should not be forgoten.
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I wouldn't put much trust in that "article" about the Scottish Templars... AFAIK there are no sources confirming a lot of his claims, and some of what he writes is outright wrong...
 
Originally posted by Havard
BIG "if", I'd say... ;)
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You mean that the "prieure documents" which conveniently appeared every year or two, or the authors's habit of taking unconnected pieces of material and claiming the linking documents must be lost, wasn't convincing enough :)

Good read though, but at times I wanted to throw the book across the room.
 
About The Prieure

Th Prieure of Sion is the most secret society in the world, if we must trust the works of many historians and journalists. In fact they seem to have created the templars, and let them be burned when the Prieure could not use them any more. In fact, the Prieure documents that appears every 2 or 3 years in the Biblioteque Nationale in Paris, and the origins of the documents try to teach us about the Catholic usurpation of the TRUTH about Jesus and the birth of the Christians. I don't know if theory about the non crucifixion of Jesus is right or not, but I KNOW that if he was only a religious comploter then He wouldn't have ended his life in a cross, because of the only crucified criminals in Roman Law were the Traitors and Political Rebels.

It's an interesting discussion, and I prefer to believe ancient non-manipulated sacred texts, as 3rd century holy books found in Egypt, better than every century-manipulated and altered Holy Bible texts.

But in fact, it doesn't matter to the purpose of CK. Paradox wouldn't include the supossed history of the secret society of the Prieure and its millenary complot to restore Merovingian Dinasty in France, by the rise of the House of Lorena. That is, by now, just a legend, and CK must be based on historic facts.

Don't you think?
 
Originally posted by Dinsdale
You mean that the "prieure documents" which conveniently appeared every year or two, or the authors's habit of taking unconnected pieces of material and claiming the linking documents must be lost, wasn't convincing enough :)
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Something along those lines, yes... ;)

Good read though, but at times I wanted to throw the book across the room.
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I would say "entertaining" rather than "good", but apart from that I enjoyed reading it - like any other book of fiction.
 
Originally posted by Havard
Something along those lines, yes... ;)

I would say "entertaining" rather than "good", but apart from that I enjoyed reading it - like any other book of fiction.
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What I find amazing is that the authors did an enormous amount of research, much of it very sound and well documented, but their conclusions were so radically removed from what their research uncovered. I'm not sure whether they were sincere and wanted it to be true, or deliberately creating controversy.

If you like the story there's a fiction called "The Davinci Code" by Dan Brown. It's a decent thriller where Holy Blood, Holy Grail is considered accurate and part of the plot.
 
What i find particularly entertaining about these pseudo-histories is that they always manage to bring together many disparate parts of common folklore into one huge conspiracy, nearly always aimed at the pope. I am thinking how King Arthur ends up as anything from a alien being to a pre-cursor of the Temple!

Malcom Barber's Book on the New Knighthood is best text i have read on the Templar history. Funnily it is never mentioned by the Holy Blood... cretins

(Stand by for my inevitable execution on a dark night by some freakish assassin of 'secret' order):p
 
Maybe

The real interesting thing in all of this, in my opinion, is that Chatolic Church, the only keepers of knowledge in the Dark Age, Has ever done as much as possible to erradicate enemy of Dogma, even burning men and books. Sometimes, when the destroyed history survived hidden anywhere it is considered as a Myth, not true History, but we must do ourselves a question. The only History that perdured for many centuries was the writen by the Chatolic Church itself, then, Do we really know the truth about History or only the Chatolic version, rewriten to suit the Dogma? I think this is the most important point we all can get from these "alternative" writers.

What do you think, my friends?
 
firstly, the 'supposedly' secret histories are often not based on fact but heresay or on very scant eveidence emiting from one source only. Now, clearly as historians we have toi evaluate all new information that comes to light. But one of the KEY problems with much of this alternative stuff is that, as you say, it begins by claiming that the C Church has hidden documetns or changed facts tosuit themselves. This immediately allows the alternative to tacitly dismiss from his and the readers mind anything that has gone before.

Also much medieval history relating to the crusades can be found in the work of such men as Ibn Al-Ithir ( i apologise for the bad arabic). These writers, as with the Byzantine historians, did not have the Church to deal with, nor did the church subsequently control the product of these histories.

So i would say, yes accept that the traditional view has areas that can be challenged BUT i would claim that many alternatives do not deal with the nitty gritty of say the Templars but always go for the 'exciting' what if? stuff. making them as bad as the originators of such things as the Popish plot of 1678!!:D
 
Re: Maybe

Originally posted by Ylzania
What do you think, my friends?
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I think that Constantine has summed it up nicely. Just to add, as well as Byzantine and Arabic writers there are also Jewish texts and Dark Age Christian texts from Ireland; well beyond the centralized message of Rome.

I also find that alternative theories are usually built on too flimsy evidence, and they always require a leap of faith.

Having said that though, I really enjoy reading different opinions, or works bordering on the fantasy, even though I disagree with the conclusions.

If nothing else, Holy Blood, Holy Grail does lead one to conclude that the traditional Templar story is incomplete, and although I do not subscribe to their Prieure theory I do think there is plenty of room to speculate over the founding, and the demise of the Knights Templar.

BTW, Inner Temple and Middle Temple; two institutions which prepare law students for the English bar, were properties belonging to the Templars as early as 1160. One of the rituals law students must endure during their year there is the eating of "dinners:" As well as passing exams a set number of formal meals must be attended, and one of the drinking ceremonies; the loving cup is a direct descendant of an old grail ritual. No conspiracy there, just another small scratch in our 21st century world which is made by a 12 century institution :)
 
I think that the Temple became a very different organisation in the thirteenth century. the international banking arm really created a lot of resentment amongst the dynasties of europe. the whole baphomet (sp?) thing was, IMO, cooked up by the French to relieve the Temple of its money, nothing more. I believe it may have stemmed from the slightly dubious accredation that the Order gave to the 'divinity' of the Virgin. Something even the pope became concerned about.

Personally i dislike the HBHG theories, and i believe the masonic ones to be a bit too silly for my conservative tastes:cool:
 
my father and his father and his father etc. were/are Free Masons. not sure how many of you have heard of them. Shriners are an offshoot of them. apparently free masons became what was left of the Knights Templar in england after they tried to get rid of them. many of our presidents,(US that is), were free masons, (including most of the constitution sighners), a sort of secret society. my dad told me to be a free mason, you have to beleive in a higher power and wish to be a better man. those are the pre-req's :). (if your a woman, you can join the Eastern Star). they have a LOT of disinformation and tongue in check type stuff they tell so you dont really know too much about them. and if you THINK you know.......

maybe some of you have seen the masonic sighn in some towns, w/ slogan "frre and accepted" on it. not sure how relevant this is to this post, but i thought i'd add what i knew of what became of the Templars. im preddy sure, at least in england, they became what is still alive today, the free masons.
 
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