The Western European Nations Project Group

[celedhring]

The Western European Nations Group

Well, I was quite surprised we still didn't have this one.
Keep your discussions about european nations in this thread. Any contribution will be apreciated.

My first proposal to be debated is to add events for the unification of Germany and Italy, so any Italian/German nation that controls X core provinces of those nations can choose to change his name to Italy/Germany with side benefits as additional leaders/better monarchs.
I know that such an union is unhistorical, as it happened outside the EU2 period, but the Italian and German states were real political entities and acknowledged as those (the Emperor was King of Germany, for example) so I think it's not foolish to suppose that a nation could have claimed this heritage when achieved control of "historical" provinces.

 

[unmerged(2920)]

well i think it is a bit too big for a single thread
lets divide it in
- occidental europe
- central europe
- balkan

(i'll create the occidental europe right know)

 

[Jools]

Yep, let's keep the great ideas in one thread... go to the Sticky

 

[celedhring]

Can some mod rename this one as "Western Europe", then?

 

[unmerged(2920)]

so if it will become western europe i propose
bearn independant but vassal to france with a +150 relation and a +150 relation with navarra.
bearn where part subdued to the french crown but free to act as they whant.

 

[das]

I think that we should make events for nations-rebels: Wales, Catalonia, Eire...
Also, there should be somekind of scenarios in which you could start as one of alternative nations.
Okay, so here is my begining of Catlonian Work:
Monarchs:
1419-1454 Ferdinand de Geroni.
NOW THERE IS PART DECIDED BY MULTI CHOICE EVENT
1454-1469 General Mondragon.
1469-1473 Military Council of Barcelona.
OR
1454-1466 Carlos I de Geroni.
1466-1475 Carlos II de Geroni.
PART DECIDED BY MULTI CHOICE EVENT IS ENDED
1475-1517 Council of Barcelona.
1517-1539 Franco de Geroni.
1539-1567 Emperor Elest Augustus (before 1543 King Phillip I de Geroni).
1567-1599 Phillip II de Geroni.
1599-1636 Carlos III de Geroni.
NEW PART DECIDED BY MULTI CHOICE EVENT IS BEGINNED
1636-1678 General Erenstein (King Erenstein von Barcelona I).
1678-1724 King Erenstein von Barcelona II.
1724-1731 King Erenstein II.
OR
1724-1759 General Rodrigo.
1759-1793 King Rodrigo II.
1793-1817 Emperor Illestes
PART DECIDED BY MULTI CHOICE EVENT IS ENDED.
1817-1820 Senate of Barcelona.

 

[Txini]

Originally posted by das
I think that we should make events for nations-rebels: Wales, Catalonia, Eire...
Also, there should be somekind of scenarios in which you could start as one of alternative nations.
Okay, so here is my begining of Catlonian Work:
Monarchs:
1419-1454 Ferdinand de Geroni.
NOW THERE IS PART DECIDED BY MULTI CHOICE EVENT
1454-1469 General Mondragon.
1469-1473 Military Council of Barcelona.
OR
1454-1466 Carlos I de Geroni.
1466-1475 Carlos II de Geroni.
PART DECIDED BY MULTI CHOICE EVENT IS ENDED
1475-1517 Council of Barcelona.
1517-1539 Franco de Geroni.
1539-1567 Emperor Elest Augustus (before 1543 King Phillip I de Geroni).
1567-1599 Phillip II de Geroni.
1599-1636 Carlos III de Geroni.
NEW PART DECIDED BY MULTI CHOICE EVENT IS BEGINNED
1636-1678 General Erenstein (King Erenstein von Barcelona I).
1678-1724 King Erenstein von Barcelona II.
1724-1731 King Erenstein II.
OR
1724-1759 General Rodrigo.
1759-1793 King Rodrigo II.
1793-1817 Emperor Illestes
PART DECIDED BY MULTI CHOICE EVENT IS ENDED.
1817-1820 Senate of Barcelona.

Is it historical?? And Geroni should be Gerona

 

[unmerged(3440)]

or Girona...

 

[celedhring]

Yes Girona.

And Das, your efforts are truely aprettiated, but your list, well doesn't make much sense, name and charge-wise. I'll try to dig the names of the survivors of the Barcelona dinasty, which was the one before the Trastamaras, or perhaps simply work out a fantasy lineage from Germana de Foix onwards. What do you think would be better?
In fact, we could have both and let you choose to reinstitute the old Barcelona dinasty (voted off in 1416) or continue with the Trastamaras.

Another way would be to put the heads of the Generalitat de Catalunya (alive until 1714) as monarchs. Although this one perhaps is more fited for a Catalunya revolter (the Generalitat only ruled in Catalunya, not the whole Crown of Aragon). There are many possibilities.

EDIT: rereading Das' post, I see he was actually speaking of Catalonia as a revolter, so I think the heads of the Generalitat are the best option. I'll dig a list ASAP.

 

[unmerged(5206)]

Hmm, I know this would make the game VERY hard for France, but Paris was in Burgundy hands at the start of the game.
Some history of 1417 France:
The English king, Henry V, returned to France in 1417 to begin the methodical conquest of the kingdom. John the Fearless of Burgundy now openly allied himself with the English king. Together they plotted to divide France. Duke John captured Paris while the royalists fled the capital.

 

[unmerged(35)]

has INDEPENDENCE for the netherlands been hardcoded, or is it the same peasent uprising for years and years. also can burgundy or whoever controlls that land act to avoid the uprising?

 

[celedhring]

Originally posted by Fate
Hmm, I know this would make the game VERY hard for France, but Paris was in Burgundy hands at the start of the game.
Some history of 1417 France:
The English king, Henry V, returned to France in 1417 to begin the methodical conquest of the kingdom. John the Fearless of Burgundy now openly allied himself with the English king. Together they plotted to divide France. Duke John captured Paris while the royalists fled the capital.

Yes, I remember that from a Shakespeare play ((King Henry the Fifth, not surprisingly).

 

[unmerged(2920)]

it's true that paris was in Burgundy's hand but it was done so to not alter game balance. To balance the game since paris is in french hand orleans is independant. If paris is in Burgundy's hand then french capitol should be bourge with an event to change it to paris when french recapture it, and orleans should not be independant since it was part of the royal domain.

 

[Petrarca]

My first proposal to be debated is to add events for the unification of Germany and Italy, so any Italian/German nation that controls X core provinces of those nations can choose to change his name to Italy/Germany with side benefits as additional leaders/better monarchs.

I agree with your idea. Personally, I believe that Northern Italian states should have this event, German states- maybe. If Spain and France hadn't made Italy their personal playground, unification could have happened eventually under the aegis of one of the states.

I would suggest that if Milan (if not Austrian), Parma, Modena, Genoa, Emilia, and the two Tuscan provinces are held, the new nation should have the option of declaring itself the Italian Republic (+ to plutocracy, openmindedness, centralization, freemen) or the Kingdom of Italy (+ to aristocracy, narrowmindedness, centralization, stability). Other possible conditions- Spain nor France may own Romagna, Rome, Piedmonte, Naples, or Apulia.

The Papacy should receive a permanent CB on this new nation, whose national provinces are the seven listed above. The capital for a republic should stay the same; the kingdom should have the option of moving to Milan (because I like the city, and it's the biggest). Relations with France, Spain, Aragon, Naples, the Papacy, Venice, and Austria should plummet by 50-100 points, I prefer the lower number.

 

[unmerged(5206)]

Surcouf, I'm sorry for not making myself clear. I don't mean to start the provence Paris is in owned by Burugndy, but controlled. This would be similar to how rebels control Granada at the start of the 1492 scenario, as they CONTROL the provence, not OWN it.

 

[unmerged(2920)]

Originally posted by Fate
Surcouf, I'm sorry for not making myself clear. I don't mean to start the provence Paris is in owned by Burugndy, but controlled. This would be similar to how rebels control Granada at the start of the 1492 scenario, as they CONTROL the provence, not OWN it.

i did understand son't worry but the problem is that i think you cannot make a province being controlled at the beginning of the game. The rebels are a separate case since they are controlled a different way (no war with rebel, no country to make peace with). I never saw a province being controlled by someone else at the begining of a game.
well by then you cannot simulate it except with giving paris to burgundy wich is not a bad choice (for me) if orlean is given to france and french capitol to bourge.

 

[unmerged(28)]

Originally posted by Surcouf
so if it will become western europe i propose
bearn independant but vassal to france with a +150 relation and a +150 relation with navarra.
bearn where part subdued to the french crown but free to act as they whant.

The reason for the eu-province of Bearn was placed with Navarre was that that geographical area belonged to Navarre not the french crown in 1419. The real Bearn that was north of the eu province by that name might have been under heavy influence of the french crown, but it however is not represented on the map.

/Greven

 

[unmerged(2920)]

Originally posted by Greven


The reason for the eu-province of Bearn was placed with Navarre was that that geographical area belonged to Navarre not the french crown in 1419. The real Bearn that was north of the eu province by that name might have been under heavy influence of the french crown, but it however is not represented on the map.

/Greven

there was 2 navarra but only 1 realm of navarra.
this 2 parts were nammed little and big navarra.
big navarra is the part of the realm in the spanish side of the pyrenne, the little one is the part on the french side of the pyrenné.
the 2 parts were separated by the mountains and the fortress of navarrenx protected the mountain passage.
they were part of navarra until 1512 when spain invaided big navarra.
little navarra was by then the place where the royal familly of navarra where. The king of spain to legitimate the invasion of the spanish navarra forced the concil ("etats generaux", don't know how to say in english) to reconnnized his son has egal king of navarra which gave navarra to the realm of spain the next generation.
little navarra is really small and is nothing compared to the bearn and the province of bearn in the game represente the bearn and not navarra.
Bearn is a possetion of the "bourbon-vendôme" (wich posess some land in picardie and guyenne too). the possetion of the bourbon vendome of bearn come from the bearn of gaston phebus. at that time bearn was really independent, with the bourbon vendome it became more a vassal than an independant land.
the alliance of navarra (little) and bearn come from the wedding of antoine de vendome and jeanne d'albret, daughter of henri II last king of the 2 navarra reunited (he flew with his familly when the spaniard took pampelune in 1512, he was really young). they are the parents of henri III of navarra wich is also Henri IV of france.
bearn should be in the game in 1419 as vassal of the king of france and really friendly relations with navarra. The possetions of navarra north of the pyrené were so small that it cannot appear on the map.

bearn/little navarra where united with Henri IV (of france) who was king of france and navarra, the 2 crowns where officially set in one under the reign of Louix XIII (his son).

so i said it before and repeat it again bearn should be independant in 1419 but vassal to france until the accession of henri IV to the throne of france (event of inheritance like for naple or luxembourg,...)

 

[unmerged(5206)]

It is possible Surcouf.

 

[unmerged(2920)]

Originally posted by Fate
It is possible Surcouf.

well it is
the capitol of little navarra is "st jean pied de port" and the capitol of bearn is Pau.
after the wedding of antoine de vendome and jeanne d'albret the capitol used is Pau (bigger)
notice that the albret had some more land just up to the bearn wich made them at the same time king of navarra and vassal to the french crown (like the king of england versus france before the 100 year war)

see here

the flag of bearn
and here http://www.multimania.com/heratlas/gascogne/cgascogn.htm a map of how where the state of bearn and navarra before 1600 (the lagal incorporation of bearn/navarra into the kingdom of france is from 1607)