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Incompetent

Euroweenie in Exile
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Sep 22, 2003
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Yesterday I had my last exam :D There are lots of distractions crowding around at the moment, of course, from the World Cup to end of year parties, but intellectually at least I'm free to start actually writing stuff again for Interregnum.


One area I needed to finish off was Scotland, which hasn't been changed much for a while now, so I'm interested in feedback on what's there at the moment from people who have played AbeII/Interregnum in the last few months. How does Scotland behave/perform under AI control? What do people think of the flow and flavour of the events? Is it balanced relative to its major rivals? Above all, is Scotland a fun country to play? I'm particularly interested in questions other than culture, as I know that's tended to dominate previous discussions on the country.
 
There dead in all my games, there just there...same provinces, no expansion.
 
In my most recent game as Byzantium I took a look around 1500ish and Scotland was slowly eating up southern england with York at their side
 
Kalmar seem to be able to land quite successfully in Scotland while Scotland have too puny a fleet to do the same, also a Kalmar controlled York is quite possible in my games.
 
Dr Bob said:
Kalmar seem to be able to land quite successfully in Scotland while Scotland have too puny a fleet to do the same, also a Kalmar controlled York is quite possible in my games.

Wow, man, you changed your tag at the bottom quickly. If England can't actually get through on their own merits, at least Trinidad is there to help them ... :p
 
MattyG said:
Wow, man, you changed your tag at the bottom quickly. If England can't actually get through on their own merits, at least Trinidad is there to help them ... :p

Trindad and Tobago is an intergral part of the British Empire, so it is still on our own merits :p
 
I played it not so long ago and remember two problems: York vassalization date is way too late (1466) or something, and Lollards revolts die out in about a week after they start. Also I could never under no circumstances re-ally to Norway after the alliance expired, but I'm not sure if its Interregnum's fault. Also I've seen Scotland diploannexed by Hansa which seriously screwed up the game.
 
What about the Stanely Cup finals?? Our (meaning the only Canadian team left in the tourny--damn warm weathered Yank teams... why do they have hockey?) team is only down 2-1 :D

Erm.... Actually I like soccer [we Canadians have our own 'football' that is similiar to the American one but different in slight and irreconizable way, never understood why a game where you carry the ball is called 'football' though] more than hockey most of the time, it's just the last and only time we ever made it to the WC we didn't score a goal :(


Anyways... Off topic... As this thread is..
 
Dairpo said:
Anyways... Off topic... As this thread is..

As I said... ;)


Good that cricket is only to former British empire.

While yesterday Kalmar could not beat rebels at sugar colony at Caribes, now Aztec against Ilkhans 1:1...
Offcourse I am not talking how Yorksheere win PTI yesterday...
 
Thanks for the feedback.

'Scotland doesn't go anywhere': Back in the Aberration days Scotland was a monster, apparently, so steps were taken to slow it down. Perhaps this went a bit too far.

'Scotland's empire collapses in the 16th century': The late 1500s aren't a nice time for Scotland revolt-wise. A player can handle it, but maybe the AI can't. The Turmoil in particular is somewhere we could have a 'lighter revolts' option, which would be always on for AIs and a choice for players (MPers might like weak revolts). If it's the early 1500s, however, it could be that old classic:

'Scotland can't transport troops properly': Scotland is supposed to have a fairly weak fleet early on, to give some challenge to the player, and also an incentive to keep Norway (which results in better admirals etc). However, this challenge is multiplied tenfold by the AI's incompetence. I'm tempted to introduce events that just remove random troops from Scotland and plant them under Norwegian control in Oslo so Kalmar doesn't just march through Norway unopposed. Also, it may be Kalmar's fleet is too strong. The idea is that they have a strong Baltic fleet to fend off the TO and Hansa, but in practice they waste it annihilating the Scottish navy and invading Britain, and then the Hansa make them pay for it a few years later. Perhaps we could reduce Kalmar's starting fleet a bit, but help the AI if the Hansa come knocking?

'Kalmar totally owns Scotland and Norway': The perennial Nordic balance problem. It's not that Kalmar is too strong, it's just that they pour everything into conquering Norway and sometimes even York in complete disregard of how exposed they end up to the Hansa and TO. AI Scotland half-heartedly defends its vassals, especially Norway, which is a problem, hence the suggestion of event-based troop transfers. Also, would anyone object to Norway getting a couple of very strong generals early on to fend off Kalmar a bit?

'Scotland has problems staying allied to Norway': This is very bad. The alliance is meant to be basically permanent, given Norway's position. Repeated alliances by event might be crude, but if that's what the AI needs, so be it. I have no idea why you'd be barred from allying with Norway, though. Could you give more detail on your and Norway's diplomatic statuses?

'York's vassalisation comes late': This is a tricky one. If Scotland gets York too early, the fight for the British Isles gets very intense very quickly, which screws up the balance. York is there as a buffer as much as anything else. The compromise is that Scotland (hopefully) doesn't inherit or DA York early on if things stay quiet in Britain, but if York gets invaded, Scotland gets the remnants and the cores immediately so it can fight back.

'Lollard trouble dies out too quickly': My idea here was that the end of the trouble (which is non-violent, so no revolts) required high stability for a long period, represented by giving the events a long offset. Offsets are a bit random though, and maybe they're not very well-behaved (when is EUII's random number generator ever well-behaved?) Looks like some tinkering is needed here.

@Ahmed AA: Go York-Wessex! ;)
 
Incompetent said:
'Scotland has problems staying allied to Norway': This is very bad. The alliance is meant to be basically permanent, given Norway's position. Repeated alliances by event might be crude, but if that's what the AI needs, so be it. I have no idea why you'd be barred from allying with Norway, though. Could you give more detail on your and Norway's diplomatic statuses?

'York's vassalisation comes late': This is a tricky one. If Scotland gets York too early, the fight for the British Isles gets very intense very quickly, which screws up the balance. York is there as a buffer as much as anything else. The compromise is that Scotland (hopefully) doesn't inherit or DA York early on if things stay quiet in Britain, but if York gets invaded, Scotland gets the remnants and the cores immediately so it can fight back.

'Lollard trouble dies out too quickly': My idea here was that the end of the trouble (which is non-violent, so no revolts) required high stability for a long period, represented by giving the events a long offset. Offsets are a bit random though, and maybe they're not very well-behaved (when is EUII's random number generator ever well-behaved?) Looks like some tinkering is needed here.

@Ahmed AA: Go York-Wessex! ;)
I already told Matty about alliance with Norway and even sent him my savegame, and he was as puzzled as me why Norway always refuses alliance. It might be somehow only my problem so I suggest you check it yourself. I also noticed similar behavior with other countries.

York: You might be right, but when you play it feels wrong. Since by the time you are able to annex York, most players will probably have the rest of England anyway, so the cores you get after annexing York are kind of pointless.

Lollards: I've also spoken to Matty about it and he might have a solution, you should ask him since I didn't understand what he was talking about :D
 
Symmetry said:
Norway: Its not surprising that Norway doesn't ally with Scotland, the land distance between the two is pretty big. Since the two countries aren't adjacent I usually have to take a Kalimar province as Scotland to get the vassilization for the good Norways inheritance event as well.

Hmm, it used to be that Norway started as a vassal of Scotland. Perhaps someone changed this because it was crippling Norway? If so, I'll probably put some vassalisation events in somewhat later. I certainly wouldn't expect the AI to get vassalisation any other way.

Edit: I tried a hands-off game with a few new events for Scotland that help it vassalise Norway. By 1505, Scotland had:

- its original provinces
- the big win in Norway (Norway had kept its original provinces and even taken Vastergotland!)
- all of Ireland except Meath (Eire only survived because it had a colony)
- Wales, Midlands, Yorkshire, Kent

Not what I'd consider a failure! The one problem was that Scotland lost its fleet early on, and never seemed to rebuild it. This made for some strange wars in which Scotland was totally dominant in the British Isles, but couldn't go on the offensive, eg against Brittany and Kalmar. Perhaps the AI needs some help on this score.
 
Last edited:
I added a vassalization for Norway in the scenario file so its starts off that way at game start.

Sekenr's file he sent me was a weird one, that's for sure. Even with RM 200 relations, zero BB and Norway not in an alliance they refused time and again. Very very strange. I've established more distant alliances before than across the North Sea.

I find that Scotland always helps Norway defebd itself pretty well. The only thing that prevents the inheritance is the lack of a vassalization. Not sure if that was EVER part of the original Aberration as a game start tool. I certainly don't remember removing it.

All good now.
 
MattyG said:
I added a vassalization for Norway in the scenario file so its starts off that way at game start.

Sekenr's file he sent me was a weird one, that's for sure. Even with RM 200 relations, zero BB and Norway not in an alliance they refused time and again. Very very strange. I've established more distant alliances before than across the North Sea.

I find that Scotland always helps Norway defebd itself pretty well. The only thing that prevents the inheritance is the lack of a vassalization. Not sure if that was EVER part of the original Aberration as a game start tool. I certainly don't remember removing it.

All good now.
Maybe there is difirences between monarch diplomatic skills + Norway recieved CB against Scotland by random event...