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Zeitgeist

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Mar 20, 2003
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This is a game based loosely on the Power and Prestige system by ******, which can be found here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=181774 . Thanks to him for the original idea.

Rules
  • No player alliances
  • No map trading with AI
  • No exploitation of lag -- including vassalization, colonists, annexation, etc
  • No moving the land/naval slider from 5. This will be edited back to 5 post session if moved by either player or event.
  • No DoWing for the purposes of raising another nation's stability or to collect war taxes while at peace.
  • No fake wars -- provinces will be edited between sessions.
  • Obey forced peace rules, and the other 3823947239874 rules here.

Power

Power is a concept by which countries are rewarded for wielding influence through the use of brute force. In this game it will be modeled in points.

You may gain power in the following ways:
  • Issuing a declaration of war against another human (3 points)
  • Receiving a declaration of war from another human (3 points)
  • Taking a province in war from a human (1 points per province)
  • Force-Vassalization of a human (5 points)
  • Winning a war (1 point)
  • Fighting a war (Diminishing returns, based on a natural logarithm formula Note that multiple wars cannot be stacked. You are either at war or not at all at any time.)
  • 10 points at the end of every session will be distributed on the basis of maximum manpower. For example, if you are Russia and you have 500 manpower, and the entiere human-played world combined has 2500 manpower, you would get 500 / 2500 * 10 = 2 power points.
  • Similarly, 10 points at the end of every session will be distributed on the basis of fleets. For the purposes of calculation, galleys will count 1/4 the cost of warships, and transports will not count at all. This is in order to get a more accurate reading of the actual value of a fleet.
  • Writing an AAR (+5 points)

Please note that fake wars will not be considered when computing power points.

You may spend power points in the following ways:
  • Constructing a barracks (cost: 5 points for the first one, 1 point for every subsequent one, price is double before LT 41).
  • Constructing a shipyard (cost: 5 points, 1 point for every subsequent one, price is double before NT 11).
  • Conscription - manpower increase of one (cost: 2 points per point of manpower. cannot be used more than twice on any individual province between sessions.
  • Constructing a war academy (cost: 5 points for the first one, 1 point for every subsequent one, price is doubled before LT 18)
  • Constructing a naval academy (cost: 4 points for the first one, 1 point for every subsequent one, price is doubled before NT 16).
  • Improving the level of a fortress. Costs are as follows:
    • .5 power, .5 prestige for improving no fort to a minimal fort
    • 2 power, 1 prestige for improving a minimal fort to a small fort
    • 3 power, 2 prestige for improving a small fort to a medium fort
    • 5 power, 4 prestige for improving a medium fort to a large fort
    • 7 power, 6 prestige for improving a large fort to a mighty fort
    • 10 power, 9 prestige for improving a mighty fort to a maximum fort

Prestige

Prestige points are meant to represent your economic, cultural, and diplomatic might. They are somewhat similar to power points, but unlike power points they can also be lost, depending on your actions in game. Note that prestige can never go below zero.

You may gain prestige points in the following ways:
  • Having human vassals (+.5 prestige per European province owned by each vassal per session).
  • Staying at peace for a session. (+5 prestige)
  • Owning CoTs (+2 prestige per CoT per session)
  • Owning European provinces (+1 prestige per European province per session)
  • Owning colonial provinces (+.25 prestige per non European province)
  • Winning a war (+5 prestige)
  • 50 prestige points will be distributed on the basis of percentage of income.
  • Being the leader in a technology (+1 prestige for each leader in each category)
  • Existing! (+25 prestige)
  • Increasing your income (+1 prestige per 10% increase)
  • Guaranteeing the independence of another human nation (committing yourself to help them in a defensive war. If they are DoWed, you must honor this commitment within 1 game month or face the penalty.) (+5 prestige)
  • Writing an AAR (+15 points)

You may lose prestige points in the following ways:
  • As DOTF, failing to help a coreligionist who requests your aid in a defensive war against a country of another religion (-20 prestige).
  • As DOTF, attacking a coreligionist (-25 prestige).
  • As DOTF, embargoing a coreligionist (-10 prestige)
  • Being a vassal (-1 prestige per European province per session)
  • Breaking a public treaty or an in-game truce in an offensive war (-5 prestige)
  • Income decrease (-1 prestige per 20% income lost)
  • Failing to come to the aid of a nation that you've guaranteed independence to (-20 prestige)
  • Attacking a nation you've guaranteed independence to (-30 prestige)
  • Embargoing a nation to which you've guaranteed independence (-10 prestige)

Note for all calculation purposes, costs will be based on the number of refineries you currently have. So if you have 2 refineries already, the cost will be 5 + 3 + 3 = 11 prestige for a third.

You may spend prestige points in the following ways:
  • Construct a fine arts academy (4 prestige for the first, +4 additional for every one thereafter, cost doubled if you lack the technology).
  • Construct a refinery (5 prestige for the first, +5 additional for every one thereafter, cost doubled if you lack the technology)
  • Construct a goods refinery (5 prestige for the first, +5 additional for every one thereafter, cost doubled if you lack the technology).
  • Claim a culture. ( (total # of provinces of that culture) * (total # of provinces of that culture - # owned by player + 1) * 4. This makes it very expensive to claim cultures that you do not almost completely control.)
  • Gain a core (5 prestige, must be state religion or culture and have been controlled for 50 years).
  • Increase tax value (3 prestige, +1 tax value, may be used twice per province per session).
  • Encourage immigration (3 prestige, +25% population to province, may only be used once per province per session)
  • Convert a province (3 + 2 point for every point towards innovative + 1 point for every 50,000 population (rounded up). This value is doubled for non state cultured province. For example, if I wanted to convert Shanghai which had 210k population as a European power which lacked han culture, with 9 inno, it would cost me ((3 + 8 (4 points towards inno x 2) + 5 (210k)) x 2 = 32 prestige points.

    You may only convert provinces if

    1) There is no nationalism in the province. (I.e. you have controlled it for 30 years or it is a core)
    2) It is not currently under enemy control.

  • Reduce Badboy (5 points / BB point)
  • Deflation (4 / (max(mayor coverage / 4, .1) + infra level / 50 + (last year income / 1000 rounded up)) . So for example, if you're at .2 mayor coverage and infra 6, and had 3001 income last year, a point of deflation would cost you (4 / (.2 + .12) + 4) = 16.5 points. If you have .25 mayor coverage and you're at infra 10 and had an income last year of 8000, a point of deflation would cost you (4 / (.25 + .2) + 8) = 16.88 points. If you're at infra 1 and have no mayors and an income of 700, deflation will cost you (4 / (.1 + .1) + 1) = 21 points. Note that all points here will be rounded up to the nearest quarter point. So if it would cost you 12.1234 to do something, it will actually cost you 12.25, etc.
  • DP Slider Movement (10 points / slider movement, maximum of 3 per session. Additionally, each one of these you make will cost you one stability point.)

Point Expenditures:

Points may be carried over across sessions without penalty. Points may not be traded between players. The GM will post points gained after every session, and it will be the responsibility of the players to ensure proper accounting (yes, even I make mistakes :rofl: ). All expenditures of power and prestige must be submitted to the GM 24 hours before game start so that edits may be done in a timely fashion. They must also be submitted in the proper syntax, as seen below.

Since the session is Friday, get your edits into me by Thursday at the very latest. Don't be surprised if your requests aren't processed if you're late with them.


Syntax For Requesting Edits:

Important: Do not include <>s in your orders!

Every request should start with these 3 lines.

  • tag = <your country's tag>
  • prestige = <your country's prestige>
  • power = <your country's power>

After the header, any combination of the following commands may be listed. You can list whatever you want, but it will only do edits as long as it has points. Therefore, list your most important edits first.

  • taxvalue <province id> <desired increase>
  • manpower <province id> <desired increase>
  • culture <culturename>
  • core <province id>
  • fort <province id>
  • shipyard <province id>
  • barrack <province id>
  • population <province id>
  • conversion <province id>
  • manufactory <province id> <desired manufactory>
    -- where desired manufactory can be one of these values
    • "luxury" - fine arts
    • "refinery" - refinery
    • "goods" - goods
    • "navalequipment" - naval equipment
    • "weapons" - weapons
  • dpslider <slider> <move>
    -- where slider can be one of these values
    • "aristocracy"
    • "centralization"
    • "innovative"
    • "mercantilism"
    • "offensive"
    • "land"
    • "quality"
    • "serfdom"
    -- and move can be
    • "+" (move slider up one)
    • "-" (move slider down one)
  • deflation <amount (positive)>
  • bbreduce <amount (positive)>
  • provincetransfer <province id> <tag>
  • vassaltransfer <vassaltag> <tag>
  • moneytransfer <amount> <tag>

    Note in this game, human tags are:
    TUR - Ottoman Empire
    RUS - Russia
    SWE - Sweden (dead now)
    FRA - France
    HAB - Austria
    SPA - Spain
    ENG - England
    GER - Germany

    Further note that you will not be charged for province, money, or vassal transfers.

Forced Peace Rules

Peace may be forced on you if the following requirements are met.

1) You are at least 5 WE.
2) The provinces demanded are in Europe, and your opponent has enough warscore in Europe to demand what he's asking. He may not use colonial warscore to demand provinces in Europe.
3) It's a stabhitting peace offer and you're at -3 stability.

If these three conditions are met, you must accept the peace. This is to promote reasonable warfare.

Military Tradition

Random leaders are generated every session based on your military tradition. This represents your officer corps-- and generally nations that fight a lot will have veteran and therefore better generals, on average. They will also tend to have more generals than peaceful nations. If you wish to recruit more generals, that is possible by using the leader command -- but notice this will cost you prestige to attract and retain leaders. Those will also be random in stats.

You get military tradition points for the following.

  • Fighting a war
  • The total number of years you were at war. You get diminishing returns here; so whereas the first couple of years are very good for leaders, each successive year will contribute less and less.

Your military tradition will decay by half every session.

The Changing Game:

If you have criticisms of the point awards/costs, I'd like to hear your opinion. This is untested, so feedback is important. I also reserve the right to modify the costs during the course of the game if I believe that something is unbalanced or unfair. All decisions rest with me-- the Buck stops here.

Game Time:
22:30 CET - ~2:30 CET
Game time may be extended, but only if all players are comfortable with that.

Current Roster:

Spain : HAL
France : DSYoungEsq (?)
Austria : King John
Germany : HolisticGod
England : drake
Ottoman Empire : Dago
Russia : Temujin

Game Stats

http://www.europa2.ru/cgi-bin/leagu...alkyrie.net VI&game=IX&yearsave=1510&lang=eng
 
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Power & Prestige Calculation
January 0, 1932 to January 1, 1952

Please note: This total may not be final. You may need to add/subtract points if you have done any of the following:
  • Hosted and signed a peace treaty.
  • Signed a peace treaty with the game host.
  • Guaranteed someone's independence.
  • Wrote an AAR
  • Were DoTF and failed to honor commitments to your coreligionists.


England

Prestige Income
Previous : 84.5
Existing : 25
European Provinces : 26 * 1 = 26
Colonial Provinces: 49 * 0.25 = 12.25
CoTs : 6 * 2 = 12
Income Increase : 9.3347423611712% = 1
Income Share : (8694.876 / 67630.211) * 50 = 6
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Prestige : 166.75

Power Income
Previous : 18,95
Manpower : (378.750 / 4831.766) * 10 = 1
Navy : ( 4214 / 55552.3622) * 10 = 1
DoWs given or received: 2 * 3 = 6
Years at war : 2.74 + log(5.1 + .1) = 4.39
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Power : 30.39

Military Tradition
Previous MT : 12.66 * 0.5 = 6.33
Wars fought : 2 * 0.5 = 1
Years at war : 2.74 + log(5.1 + .1) = 4.39

Total Military Tradition : 11.72

Relevant Wars :
December 6 1937 : Austria declared war upon England.
February 25 1941 : England joined the war on the same side as Spain in their war against Ottoman Empire.
June 17 1941 : England accepted peace with Austria on the following terms : Holland to Austria.
December 16 1941 : England accepted peace with Ottoman Empire on the following terms : England pays 100$ in indemnities.


France

Prestige Income
Previous : 385.5
Existing : 25
European Provinces : 37 * 1 = 37
Colonial Provinces: 35 * 0.25 = 8.75
CoTs : 2 * 2 = 4
Income Increase : -2.42210363940791% = 0
Income Share : (4486.82 / 67630.211) * 50 = 3
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Prestige : 463.25

Power Income
Previous : 56.56
Manpower : (458.953 / 4831.766) * 10 = 1
Navy : ( 765.4 / 55552.3622) * 10 = 0
DoWs given or received: 1 * 3 = 3
Years at war : 2.74 + log(2.1 + .1) = 3.53
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Power : 64.09

Military Tradition
Previous MT : 10.8 * 0.5 = 5.4
Wars fought : 1 * 0.5 = 0.5
Years at war : 2.74 + log(2.1 + .1) = 3.53

Total Military Tradition : 9.43

Relevant Wars :
September 15 1934 : Austria declared war upon France.
April 25 1936 : France accepted peace with Austria on the following terms : Zeeland to Austria & Flandern to Austria.


Austria

Prestige Income
Previous : 16
Existing : 25
European Provinces : 40 * 1 = 40
Colonial Provinces: 12 * 0.25 = 3
CoTs : 8 * 2 = 16
Income Increase : 9.65910796657% = 1
Income Share : (9533.617 / 67630.211) * 50 = 7
Peace resolutions: 15

Total Base Prestige : 108

Power Income
Previous : 0.9
Manpower : (708.007 / 4831.766) * 10 = 1
Navy : ( 10745.974 / 55552.3622) * 10 = 2
DoWs given or received: 3 * 3 = 9
Years at war : 2.74 + log(12.1 + .1) = 5.24
Peace resolutions: 6

Total Base Power : 24.14

Military Tradition
Previous MT : 10.81 * 0.5 = 5.41
Wars fought : 3 * 0.5 = 1.5
Years at war : 2.74 + log(12.1 + .1) = 5.24

Total Military Tradition : 12.15

Relevant Wars :
September 15 1934 : Austria declared war upon France.
April 25 1936 : France accepted peace with Austria on the following terms : Zeeland to Austria & Flandern to Austria.
December 6 1937 : Austria declared war upon England.
September 10 1939 : Spain joined the war on the same side as England in their war against Austria.
June 17 1941 : England accepted peace with Austria on the following terms : Holland to Austria.
August 27 1947 : Spain accepted peace with Austria on the following terms : Malta to Austria.


Germany

Prestige Income
Previous : 7.7
Existing : 25
European Provinces : 32 * 1 = 32
Colonial Provinces: 15 * 0.25 = 3.75
CoTs : 2 * 2 = 4
Income Increase : 66.5961796383463% = 7
Income Share : (8814.284 / 67630.211) * 50 = 7
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Prestige : 86.45

Power Income
Previous : 0.44
Manpower : (895.524 / 4831.766) * 10 = 2
Navy : ( 8260.8 / 55552.3622) * 10 = 1
DoWs given or received: 1 * 3 = 3
Years at war : 2.74 + log(1 + .1) = 2.84
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Power : 9.28

Military Tradition
Previous MT : 6.52 * 0.5 = 3.26
Wars fought : 1 * 0.5 = 0.5
Years at war : 2.74 + log(1 + .1) = 2.84

Total Military Tradition : 6.6

Relevant Wars :
May 29 1935 : Germany declared war upon Ottoman Empire.
June 18 1935 : Germany accepted peace with Ottoman Empire on the following terms : Return to Status Quo.


Spain

Prestige Income
Previous : 0
Existing : 25
European Provinces : 24 * 1 = 24
Colonial Provinces: 158 * 0.25 = 39.5
CoTs : 6 * 2 = 12
Income Increase : -2.74954375171355% = 0
Income Share : (15490.324 / 67630.211) * 50 = 11
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Prestige : 111.5

Power Income
Previous : 1
Manpower : (509.463 / 4831.766) * 10 = 1
Navy : ( 9563.2 / 55552.3622) * 10 = 2
DoWs given or received: 2 * 3 = 6
Years at war : 2.74 + log(8.1 + .1) = 4.84
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Power : 14.84

Military Tradition
Previous MT : 10.79 * 0.5 = 5.4
Wars fought : 2 * 0.5 = 1
Years at war : 2.74 + log(8.1 + .1) = 4.84

Total Military Tradition : 11.24

Relevant Wars :
September 10 1939 : Spain joined the war on the same side as England in their war against Austria.
February 15 1941 : Ottoman Empire declared war upon Spain.
October 29 1941 : Ottoman Empire accepted peace with Spain on the following terms : Fez to Ottoman Empire & Alexandria to Ottoman Empire.
August 27 1947 : Spain accepted peace with Austria on the following terms : Malta to Austria.


Russia

Prestige Income
Previous : 483
Existing : 25
European Provinces : 81 * 1 = 81
Colonial Provinces: 184 * 0.25 = 46
CoTs : 6 * 2 = 12
Income Increase : -14.5964347659462% = -1
Income Share : (13468.875 / 67630.211) * 50 = 10
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Prestige : 656

Power Income
Previous : 87.24
Manpower : (1257.761 / 4831.766) * 10 = 3
Navy : ( 13342.7882 / 55552.3622) * 10 = 2
DoWs given or received: 0 * 3 = 0
Years at war : 2.74 + log(0 + .1) = 0.44
Peace resolutions: 0

Total Base Power : 92.68

Military Tradition
Previous MT : 11.71 * 0.5 = 5.86
Wars fought : 0 * 0.5 = 0
Years at war : 2.74 + log(0 + .1) = 0.44

Total Military Tradition : 6.3

Relevant Wars :


Ottoman Empire

Prestige Income
Previous : 9.75
Existing : 25
European Provinces : 27 * 1 = 27
Colonial Provinces: 88 * 0.25 = 22
CoTs : 2 * 2 = 4
Income Increase : 1.56637220625156% = 0
Income Share : (7141.415 / 67630.211) * 50 = 5
Peace resolutions: 10

Total Base Prestige : 92.75

Power Income
Previous : 1.12
Manpower : (623.308 / 4831.766) * 10 = 1
Navy : ( 8660.2 / 55552.3622) * 10 = 2
DoWs given or received: 3 * 3 = 9
Years at war : 2.74 + log(2 + .1) = 3.48
Peace resolutions: 4

Total Base Power : 20.6

Military Tradition
Previous MT : 5.11 * 0.5 = 2.56
Wars fought : 3 * 0.5 = 1.5
Years at war : 2.74 + log(2 + .1) = 3.48

Total Military Tradition : 7.54

Relevant Wars :
May 29 1935 : Germany declared war upon Ottoman Empire.
June 18 1935 : Germany accepted peace with Ottoman Empire on the following terms : Return to Status Quo.
February 15 1941 : Ottoman Empire declared war upon Spain.
February 25 1941 : England joined the war on the same side as Spain in their war against Ottoman Empire.
October 29 1941 : Ottoman Empire accepted peace with Spain on the following terms : Fez to Ottoman Empire & Alexandria to Ottoman Empire.
December 16 1941 : England accepted peace with Ottoman Empire on the following terms : England pays 100$ in indemnities.
 
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wil this game start this week or the next ?
 
Not this week, sorry. We simply don't have enough yet.

I would expect the date to be either next Friday or the one after, depending on how long it takes to recruit people, and get this game off the ground. I'd prefer not to start with any subs given the complicated rule set.
 
bump
 
This idea interests me. Unfortunately, I'm a bit constricted as far as my schedule goes. I'll keep an eye out, but I can't commit at this time unless I manage to free myself elsewhere.
 
I'd like this game to start Friday at 22 CET. (Not this Friday, as we still don't have enough).

Still don't know what scenario, but let's start filling the countries in. Here's who I know so far.

England - drake
France - zeitgeist
Spain -
Austria - Pibe
Ottoman Empire - Dago
Russia -
Sweden -
Brandenburg -

Extras

Portugal -
(*) Netherlands -
Poland -

Please get back to me with your choice of country. The extras won't be filled until the regular countries are. If we have a player for it, Netherlands will be released with some edits.
 
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Instead, everyone will get governors in all of their starting provinces.

Why on earth would you do that? Actually i did like it in bocajs scenario where people started with 1 gov in their captiol.
 
cheech said:
Why on earth would you do that? Actually i did like it in bocajs scenario where people started with 1 gov in their captiol.

he wan'ts to encourage early wars without people having to worry bout inflation entire time
 
I was just looking at the system and it seems way too generous though i like the concept. +10 prest for existing? +2 per cot ? This and it only costs 3 prestege to buy a manu. You cant be serious. People will have manus on all provs in this game.
 
cheech said:
I was just looking at the system and it seems way too generous though i like the concept. +10 prest for existing? +2 per cot ? This and it only costs 3 prestege to buy a manu. You cant be serious. People will have manus on all provs in this game.

where do you see 3for a manu ?

refinerys and goods cost 5 for first 8for secund 12for third ect
fine art 3 6 9 12 ect

weapons and navalmanus have been discussed he wil probaly double the cost for them if you don't have the tech for them yet meaning

lt18 5 6 7 8ect
lower tech 10 12 14 16 ect

nt16 4 5 6 7 ect
lower tech 8 10 12 14 ect
 
I would like to subscribe as Russia, assuming we start this Friday. I would also propose the starttime be an hour earlier, if that suits everyone.
 
my vote stil is 1453scenario