Toning down China

[Daveyj]

Hi everyone, long time lurker, not very active poster, but I have a question.

It seems no matter what mod I use, everyone has amped the National Chinese up to unreal levels. For example, in the latest version of the 1.09 beta that I played, (and every one I have played using it), China instantly annexes Yunnan, Shanxi, etc and then proceeds to put over 100 divisions along the northern border.

The things I would like to be able to mod are A)stopping the instant annexing (and the occasional war with Tibet...I won't even go into that!) B) Start National China with 1918 infantry instead of 1936 infantry. I am ambivalent on their use of brigades, but the fact that they are now brigading every division with artillery only exasperates the issues in my eyes.

I understand that many if not most disagree and think it makes for too easy of a game. My take on it is the, besides being historically completely off the charts...China was not a power, they got their butts handed to them repeatedly by a much smaller but more effective Japanese army. They didn't defeat the Japanese, the ran away an hid in the hills till the war was over.

But the bigger problem I have is currently, with this monster stacks of doom on every border and potential invasion site, it totally destroys the mechanics of the game. The AI currently doesn't care that it has huge stacking penalties while defending. 20-30 divisions? Who cares? The Japanese will never be able to wear it down.

So any advice anyone could give me advice on what needs to be edited in the setup and/or AI files for National China would be much appreciated.

Thank you.

 

[bestmajor]

easiest thing is to give china a (new) national idea with negative effects. all events will be the same, just lower ORG or lower IC or both -> China is on the run.


like:

# KMT State
national_idea = {
category = nazi
category = fascist
category = paternal_autocrat
category = social_conservative
category = market_liberal
category = social_liberal

picture = "Kuomintang Chaos - The failed State"
personality_string = "policy_identity_KMT_State"
name = "NAME_POLICY_IDENTITY_KMT"
desc = "DESCRIPTION_POLICY_IDENTITY_KMT"
minister_position = nationalidentity
modifier = { type = org_mod modifier_effect = -0.0500 }
modifier = { type = foreign_ic_mod modifier_effect = -0.2000 }
modifier = { type = foreign_mp_mod modifier_effect = -0.2000 }
modifier = { type = production_category_mod value = production modifier_effect = -0.0500 }
modifier = { type = military_salaries_mod modifier_effect = -0.2000 }
modifier = { type = resource_mod value = money modifier_effect = -0.1000 }
modifier = { type = morale_mod modifier_effect = -0.0500 }
modifier = { type = leader_xp_mod modifier_effect = -0.1000 }
modifier = { type = mp_growth_mod modifier_effect = -1.1000 }
}

the file is in db/ideas

 

[Daveyj]

Hmm, ok...that is one option.I will tinker with it and see what happens

Where would I go to ensure they start with '18 infantry instead of '36 also?

 

[bestmajor]

Where would I go to ensure they start with '18 infantry instead of '36 also?

i think they start with 18 inf? (scenarios/1936/chi_36.INC)

landunit =
{ location = 1276 # Lanzhou
name = "1. Xin Jun"
leader = 50285 # Deng Baoshan
id = { type = 22000 id = 29 }
division =
{ experience = 20
id = { type = 22000 id = 30 }
name = "1. Xin Jun"
type = infantry
model = 0
}

well "1" would be the next model. you could turn that into milita, though. the next militia model is probably harder to achieve than the next inf model.
also, you can remove technologies.


similar things can be done to the "cliques" (csx, cyn, cgx, etc).

i do not even think it would be historically wrong.

 

[Daveyj]

The starting units are 1918 infantry, yes...but they start with 1936 infantry technology and immediately start pumping them out. By the time July '37 rolls around, they easily have over 100 '36 infantry, most with artillery, manning the northern front on Shanxi.

But model = 0 sets up the year...good to know, I learned one thing! Perhaps just setting them up as militia may get me the type of early war I am looking for.

Where would I go to ensure that their starting infantry tech is '18 and not '36? Is that the techapps line of the .inc file?

 

[bestmajor]

Where would I go to ensure that their starting infantry tech is '18 and not '36? Is that the techapps line of the .inc file?

the inf techs are defined in db/tech/infantry_tech

so the tech for model 1936 is:

# Early Infantry Division
application =
{ id = 1020
name = TECH_APP_INFANTRY_2_NAME
desc = TECH_APP_INFANTRY_2_DESC
position = { x = 24 y = 44 }
year = 1936
# Service Rifle
component = { id = 1021 name = TECH_CMP_INFANTRY_2_1_NAME type = general_equipment difficulty = 6 }
# Infantry Gun 50mm
component = { id = 1022 name = TECH_CMP_INFANTRY_2_2_NAME type = artillery difficulty = 6 }
# Basic Long-Range Recon Battalion
component = { id = 1023 name = TECH_CMP_INFANTRY_2_3_NAME type = electronics difficulty = 6 }
# Light Mortar 50mm
component = { id = 1024 name = TECH_CMP_INFANTRY_2_4_NAME type = artillery difficulty = 6 }
# Small Combat Unit Training
component = { id = 1025 name = TECH_CMP_INFANTRY_2_5_NAME type = training difficulty = 6 }
required = { 1010 }
effects =
{ command = { type = new_model which = infantry value = 1 }
command = { type = scrap_model which = infantry value = 0 }
command = { type = activate_unit_type which = police }
}

so you keep that number in mind and open scenarios/1936/chi_36.INC

there you search for:

techapps = { 1010 1190 2150 2290 3010 3070 3080 3130 4010 4120 5080 5090 8050 9010 6210 1020 1110 } # German Mission
blueprints = { 1310 2300 2310 2320 1200 1210 1220 6300 } # German Mission+Soviet advisors

of course you can also remove a few blueprints or other techs they have. that should do the trick, even if the number of divisions will stay the same.


EDIT:

most with artillery

that is the ai file. and unhistorical, i'd say?

 

[Daveyj]

Ok...so the techapps are the current techs the country has. That should be a huge help.

Thank you so much for your help, bestmajor. Let me fiddle with these settings now, I think I have enough of a picture to be dangerous.

 

[bestmajor]

glad to help.

just make sure you save your original files somewhere. its easy to mess things up.

 

[Dichromate]

It seems no matter what mod I use, everyone has amped the National Chinese up to unreal levels. For example, in the latest version of the 1.09 beta that I played, (and every one I have played using it), China instantly annexes Yunnan, Shanxi, etc and then proceeds to put over 100 divisions along the northern border.

I'm fairly sure that only happens when Japan is player controlled, could be wrong though. If you're playing Japan, you should be able to destroy large numbers of chinese troops in encirclement's.

 

[RisingSun]

I agreed, the Chinese aren't suppose to be that strong. Most of their units are like militias and garrisons and some 18' infantry.

I been working on another mod to polish 1.08 along with better graphic details and realistic resources. Also noticed that the Chinese have Early Infantry '36 and shouldn't be there, so I would have that remove. During '30 Chinese Governments wasn't doing well due to civil and economic crisis. Hopefully in this mod will be more balance through out the world.

 

[Daveyj]

I would love to see your mod when you feel its ready to be shown to the world

Part of the problem, (I think), is on one hand people want to ensure that an AI China has a chance against an AI Japan. So China has been steadily increased in power for few patches and mod updates.

And of course, one of the big problems I see mostly in China, but also in other places, is the AI simply blows off the rules regarding stacking penalties and just builds up huge stacks of doom on the border/invasion provinces. And while they may not win many offensive battles that way, they will cause you tremendous casualities and more importantly, will slow you down as the game mechanics tries to deal with this astronomical stacking penalties. I routinely see stacks of 15-20 '36 divisions along the entire front..and depending on the mod, they most may even have artillery.

Personally, what I want to see is a China that starts with '18 infantry and militia, no brigades, with all or most of the warlords staying "independent" at least until invaded. (The warlords existence seems to stop the doom stacks on the border. Shanxi can never have that many infantry divisions, for instance). China should bog the Japanese down with its crappy infrastructure and terrain, not overwhelm them with battles...because that never happened. Even as late as '44, the Chinese were still reluctant to commit soldiers in helping us open up the Burma road...they Yunnan army dragged its feet for that entire campaign.

Ultimately, China should be a siren song for Japan. They win the battles, so they invest more men, but the continually get slowed down and achieve nothing substantial.

 

[RisingSun]

I would love to see your mod when you feel its ready to be shown to the world

Part of the problem, (I think), is on one hand people want to ensure that an AI China has a chance against an AI Japan. So China has been steadily increased in power for few patches and mod updates.

And of course, one of the big problems I see mostly in China, but also in other places, is the AI simply blows off the rules regarding stacking penalties and just builds up huge stacks of doom on the border/invasion provinces. And while they may not win many offensive battles that way, they will cause you tremendous casualities and more importantly, will slow you down as the game mechanics tries to deal with this astronomical stacking penalties. I routinely see stacks of 15-20 '36 divisions along the entire front..and depending on the mod, they most may even have artillery.

Personally, what I want to see is a China that starts with '18 infantry and militia, no brigades, with all or most of the warlords staying "independent" at least until invaded. (The warlords existence seems to stop the doom stacks on the border. Shanxi can never have that many infantry divisions, for instance). China should bog the Japanese down with its crappy infrastructure and terrain, not overwhelm them with battles...because that never happened. Even as late as '44, the Chinese were still reluctant to commit soldiers in helping us open up the Burma road...they Yunnan army dragged its feet for that entire campaign.

Ultimately, China should be a siren song for Japan. They win the battles, so they invest more men, but the continually get slowed down and achieve nothing substantial.

Not sure what I will call this mod, its mostly involved in the Pacific for one thing. Doing the rest of the world can take some time to do. I will take a look at the AIs and see what going on in there. I see some reckless and unnecessary behaviors in Japan AI, for example not taken out the key places and secure the bases that have important resources. The Japanese focus on some unnecessary techs and left out some important issues. Saw one line in AI for Japan is to build level ten naval base in Rabaul and that is dumb and wasting time/IC for that.

I wont make Chinese weak, but you will still have to fight your way through if you want to take China by force. In time China will beef up their techs and it will get harder the longer you wait. Right now I just working on new graphic icons and polishing the data sheets for combat units. It seem it is alittle off, also been trying to figure out why the fighter sprites doesn't show up properly, all I see is neutral fighter sprite. Have anyone seen national fighters in their game on 1.08? I haven't played this game in years and look like AoD will be the best Hearts of Iron Series there is.