Trade

[RedRalphWiggum]

This seems to be the one area of the game that the devs are fully willing to talk about (probably the most developed or something), so I am going to ask a few questions about it. I've seen the videos on it but still don't fully understand the system.

OK, so let's use Alexandria as an example. I, as Venice, send a merchant there who redirects money towards Venice. Basically the same as in EU3, no?

Also, by controlling provinces (or having fleets based) along the route, I can get some more, yes?

Does me placing merchants there lower the amount other countries get from Alexandria?

I see the routes are static - is their direction static too? I would have no major objection to all trade flowing towards Europe, but ideally it would flow in the direction(s) of the places with the highest trade tech.

Besuchov mentioned in a video something about Portugal taking Soccotra and reidrecting trade away from the med and towards Portugal - so is there some way to 'deactivate' some trade routes to make more go to your lands? Why would Portugal opwning Soccotra stop people trading through the Med?

 

[Seli]

With the examples so far trade seems to flow following the paths of least resistance. Once Portugal opens the trade route around the cape (and has the force to protect/stabilize it) the more difficult trade through the med, which does need land-shipping, transfers and intermediates, will be less attractive.

 

[Von Paulous]

Population taken into account....

I agree that the course of trade should change and be dynamic... However not just trade tech but population should taken into account when calculating which way more money flows.... perhaps the numerical value of production units is good enough (it takes into account the tax base).

The countries that Produce more (are ahead in production teach) she be considered export countries and perhaps enjoy some sort of benefit....
(add up a bit more value to the center of trade they belong to value) while nations witch high trade tech / trade influence should leach more of that value into their pockets...

 

[Jaol]

OK, so let's use Alexandria as an example. I, as Venice, send a merchant there who redirects money towards Venice. Basically the same as in EU3, no?

Also, by controlling provinces (or having fleets based) along the route, I can get some more, yes?

Does me placing merchants there lower the amount other countries get from Alexandria?

I see the routes are static - is their direction static too? I would have no major objection to all trade flowing towards Europe, but ideally it would flow in the direction(s) of the places with the highest trade tech.

Besuchov mentioned in a video something about Portugal taking Soccotra and reidrecting trade away from the med and towards Portugal - so is there some way to 'deactivate' some trade routes to make more go to your lands? Why would Portugal opwning Soccotra stop people trading through the Med?

Based on what the devs have said and Johan's video, it sounds like:

1) No. In EU3, you place a merchant in a CoT and he makes money for you. In EU4 when you place a merchant you have 2 choices: "build transit hub" and "maintain office" (see the video). We see that transit hubs direct the flow of trade; presumably offices cash in on it. So when Johan placed a merchant in Alexandria (with Build Transit Hub), wasn't making money from that merchant alone. Instead he was redirecting some of the value of the Alexandria trade hub to the Venice trade hub. He had to place another merchant in Venice (with Maintain Office) to make money. You can imagine how by placing a series of transit hubs (say, Malacca + Goa + Alexandria) could significantly shift the flow of trade and be able to funnel money from all over the world towards a CoT where you have an office.

2) Looks like owning a province doesn't do anything on its own (note the Alexandria trade was evenly split before Johan placed a merchant). It sounds like it just makes your other actions (with merchant/fleets) more powerful.

3) Yes. In the video, Johan's merchant + fleet completely redirected all the outgoing trade from Alexandria so it was going to Venice an nowhere else (before it was split 3 ways--probably Venice, Constantinople, and Provence). He also seemed to have increased the total amount of outgoing trade, which probably means he lowered the amount of local trade at Alexandria.

4) No idea.

5) Portugal redirecting trade away from Alexandria would just be the same thing as what Johan did, redirecting trade away from everywhere but Venice. Basically, if you have a merchant/fleet on a trade route you can try to steer the outgoing trade along whichever trade route you wish. For Portugal that would be round the cape, instead of up the Red Sea.

 

[Don_Quigleone]

Along with what others have asked I'd like to know:

How is the quantity of money generated by trade exactly determined?

And I'd like to second requests for more information on directionality, because traders could often make money on trade in both directions (that's why it's called trade!).

 

[Don_Quigleone]

One thing I noticed in the most recent video, was that near Socotra the trade from India split into a route around africa, and a route to the red sea, but there's no clear trade centre there (as there is in the other videos at Alexandria), which I think is quite interesting.

 

[Poh]

One thing I noticed in the most recent video, was that near Socotra the trade from India split into a route around africa, and a route to the red sea, but there's no clear trade centre there (as there is in the other videos at Alexandria), which I think is quite interesting.

We have been shown Trade Centers in Venice, Alexandria, Thrace, Serbia, Provence, Tunis, Krakow, il de France, Kaffa, Tripolitania, Socotra, Kutch(probably), Malabar(probably), Wien and Würzburg from the videos. The Trade Centers can split into more routes but can also only one incoming and one outgoing route (like Serbia)

I see the routes are static - is their direction static too? I would have no major objection to all trade flowing towards Europe, but ideally it would flow in the direction(s) of the places with the highest trade tech.

Since the routes are static i would say its certain that the direction can not be changed.

Besuchov mentioned in a video something about Portugal taking Soccotra and reidrecting trade away from the med and towards Portugal - so is there some way to 'deactivate' some trade routes to make more go to your lands? Why would Portugal opwning Soccotra stop people trading through the Med?

Portugal does not need to take Socotra like Venice do not have to take Alexandria. If we look at the Venice video they use Crete which is part of the Alexandria CoT area. To be able to "protect trade" with their navy they had to rebase the fleet to Crete. So you need to have a fleet base aka. a costal province (maybe just basing righs) in the CoT area you try to "steal" from to be able to use the "protect trade" mission with your fleet.
Now Socotra CoT value is based on its own CoTs area and the incoming trade from India. Now Portugal use their navy to force the trade from the Socotra CoT into only using one of the outgoing routes the one that goes around afrika. Which ofcourse leads to 0 trade going in the other outgoing route which leads to the red sea and Alexandria.
The trade produced in Alexandrias CoT area will still be traded in Alexandria however CoTs worth will be far less than if they also have incoming trade from Socotra. A way to counter this will ofcourse be if Venice also grabs an area in Socotra CoT area. Now what will happen if two fleets both try to "protect trade" to two different outgoing routes? maybe a naval war? maybe the big fleet trumphs the small one.

 

[Tornadoli]

What is meant by the fact that the routes are static?

 

[Jaol]

One thing I noticed in the most recent video, was that near Socotra the trade from India split into a route around africa, and a route to the red sea, but there's no clear trade centre there (as there is in the other videos at Alexandria), which I think is quite interesting.

I'm pretty sure there is. If you pause the video can see it. The trade zone is marked Gulf of Aden, and it has the little boxes showing local and outgoing trade. It does seem that the Center of Trade may not be located in a single province, though, since that trade box is floating mid-ocean.

What is meant by the fact that the routes are static?

The routes themselves don't change over time, just the amount going over each one. So, in the beginning of the game, there'd be no trade flowing around the bottom of Africa. But the route would be there, waiting for someone to start pushing trade in that direction.

It does make me wonder what Zanzibar is going to look like prior to the arrival of the Portuguese. Will money be flowing into there but nothing going back to India/Arabia?

 

[Don_Quigleone]

We have been shown Trade Centers in Venice, Alexandria, Thrace, Serbia, Provence, Tunis, Krakow, il de France, Kaffa, Tripolitania, Socotra, Kutch(probably), Malabar(probably), Wien and Würzburg from the videos. The Trade Centers can split into more routes but can also only one incoming and one outgoing route (like Serbia)

I'm pretty sure there is. If you pause the video can see it. The trade zone is marked Gulf of Aden, and it has the little boxes showing local and outgoing trade. It does seem that the Center of Trade may not be located in a single province, though, since that trade box is floating mid-ocean.

This is what I meant, it seems like the node is floating over the ocean, not a province.