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mr_stibbons

Second Lieutenant
15 Badges
May 21, 2018
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So, while we've seen lots of cool infantry units in this game so far, it would be odd if those infantry had to travel around the world entirely on foot. I expect there to be some way to transport units in this game, but I don't think there's a clear way to implement it in the AOW engine.

The naive way to do this would be to have a separate transport unit that could deploy the infantry mid battle like a combat summon, with each unit taking one slot in a stack. The problem comes when trying to get the unit into the transport-this is after all, a game where the devs don't even want to let us deploy units pre-battle. The pre-battle micromanagement to get the troops you want into the transports you want would be out of the question.

A slightly unsatisfying way forward would be to assume that all units disembark before combat, so all transports do is improve the movement of an infantry unit in the same stack on the strategic map. This cuts out the micromanagement load, as it shouldn't be that hard to automate assigning transports to units.

We could take this a step further, and abstract transports out of the game entirely-just have an empire upgrade "Motorized infantry" which makes infantry move farther on the strategic map, and assume that transports aren't suited to combat. The you could also implement a range of airlift operations to fly units around.

These would work, but not being able to fly troops to a crucial piece of cover in the middle of a battle is a little unsatisfying. You could maybe make a transport take up an upgrade slot, but balancing even a very weak transport against other upgrades seems dubious-that's still another 30ish hp and an extra three ap to attack with. Jetpacks don't compare. Another option would be to have a dedicated mechanized unit-say an elite infantry squad and a fancy transport helicopter together as a t3 unit, where neither half is really t3 quality, but you still have two of them. The main problem I can see with this is figuring out what happens when one half dies? Do they just re-spawn with low hp at end of turn?

Does anyone have any thoughts on how to implement infantry transports within the age of wonders framework?
 
If I recall correctly, in AoW2 they were units that decreased movement cost to some extent for the units in the party down to some hard limit (minimum amount of MP that the units on the transport should have remaining on board a transport). This made transports effective as you could still disembark from them and move even further even if the transport depleted all its MPs transporting your people (increasing movement range by quite a bit), but it did not leave the units on board at full MP at the end of the transporting journey (which would increase the movement range by even more). Transports could also fight, with the Humans' Air Galley being one of the most annoying (it being flying ballista) to fight against. I rather think that was a good idea.

The abstract way would also work, with tech upgrades decreasing MP required to pass over some ground (could be all ground, could be just roads - similar to Civ with roads-railroads-maglev).
 
In AoW 3, this part of the story is, like boats, reduced to a mere Logistics technology, when the costs of using roads is reduced from 3 to 2.

Since PF is SciFi, not contemporary, "transports" don't have to be limited to the ground; I'd actually expect at least something like armored hovertrucks as transports, not wheel- or track-driven stuff - in terms of AoW 3, floating transports (at least) -, but I don't think that micro-management is really neccessary, considering that this level of tech also solves the sea-transport problems.
 
Part of the problem with the old transport system, if I remember correctly from the devs, is that it's incredibly complicated for the AI to use and plan around. It requires quite some planning ahead. It wants these units to cross the water so it needs a transport, that transport needs to be at that location at that the same turn the stack is there, but things can happen in between like the transport getting attacked and so on. It's all not very complicated for humans, but for AIs it was apparently very difficult to actually get right. Indeed, in Age of Wonders 1 the AI never built boats and never used transports at all. The Flood spell from the water sphere was horribly overpowered against the AI as it'd completely immobilise any non-flying non-floating non-swimming units they had. I don't think the AI used any transports in Shadow Magic either. In the end they ended up with the embarking system for Age of Wonders 3 because it was far simpler for the AI to use.
 
Part of the problem with the old transport system, if I remember correctly from the devs, is that it's incredibly complicated for the AI to use and plan around. It requires quite some planning ahead. It wants these units to cross the water so it needs a transport, that transport needs to be at that location at that the same turn the stack is there, but things can happen in between like the transport getting attacked and so on. It's all not very complicated for humans, but for AIs it was apparently very difficult to actually get right. Indeed, in Age of Wonders 1 the AI never built boats and never used transports at all. The Flood spell from the water sphere was horribly overpowered against the AI as it'd completely immobilise any non-flying non-floating non-swimming units they had. I don't think the AI used any transports in Shadow Magic either. In the end they ended up with the embarking system for Age of Wonders 3 because it was far simpler for the AI to use.

You do indeed remember correctly Bob5, that's pretty accurate.
 
How about making mechanized infantry and their transports one unit on strategic map ?
This unit "split up" in tactical combat. If the transport is destroyed, it applies a status that GREATLY reduced over-map speed. if the squad is killed, the unit dies.
this also add the flexibility where infantry could be equipped with helicopter transports, allowing them to fly over strategic map or a heavily armed IFV that can support the squad with a cannon and missiles.

(idea curtsy of eugen systems)
 
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