Treaty of the Golden Bulls

[Gnim6972]

So just having finished the Pope feeding of northern Italy, I'm a bit confused on how one is supposed to keep a Pope that has around 1000 dev loyal. Seems a bit weird to have this mission tree to feed him up and then have no way to control him.

 

[LazySiege]

It isnt so hard.
First there are several ideas which reduce liberty desire in % and liberty desire for dev.
Also depending on the country you play you have some goverment reform which reduce it too.
In the later ages (i think revolution) you get some more reduce liberty desire traits you can pick, too.

Second you can "please" him when you constant feed land to him and build buildings for him.
Last effort could be to dev some of his provinces.

Thats the general, for more detail answer we need more input.

 

[Gnim6972]

Oh I understand all that, but I'm easily 150% in the hole on loyalty. Just seems an oversight that you build the Pope so high up via the missions, not to have some sort of modifier to assist with loyalty after feeding him all of northern Italy.

 

[PDXBigBoss]

This is an issue I am looking into

 

[Gnim6972]

Fantastic, thank you for the info!

Fun little part of the French mission tree but, the lack of loyalty really hinders a bit lol.

 

[LazySiege]

Thats why i said Screenshots, you can get another -100% from deving and building. But even then its hard in your example:

you have in total -330 negativ
And you could get ~ 315 positive

So it would be only 15% Liberty desire, but for this it would be a huge invest

It would be easier to add a reduced liberty desire for development in the Mission tree.
(just an idea for PDX Big Boss)

 

[Richard-monagha]

Thanks for redirecting me here. Having the same problem with about the same amount of LD, but never thought of developing their provinces. Don't normally develop subjects provinces unless for a mission. Got 70% diplo annex reduction atm and might be able to hit 80% with the random event for 10% more. Won't take long to annex them as long as I dev loads of their land since I have loads of spare points.


Edit. Just loaded up and spend about 2400 points to dev them up to get them them to about 83% LD with -100% from developed provinces. Once I annex my other 2 vassals and annexed Aragon for the rank 3 Alhambra they will drop below 30% LD and I just need to dev them once every time they go over 50% again. However its still gonna take about 23 years with 11 dip rep and at least 70% annex cost reduction to finish annexing them. Gonna wait till I finish feeding Germany and Arabia to my PU's and instant inherit it all and then just annex them as the last subject.

 

[augustuscaeser2]

I ran into this issue too — the pope also had ~300 AE on me from eating Italy before feeding it to him (I wasn’t able to call him into all the wars). Eventually I was able to spend enough prestige to get -100% LD from placated ruler, and another ~50 from paying off debt after diverting trade, and sending officers. Historical friends is a big help, but it would nice for them to get a 25-50% less liberty desire from dev, maybe as part of the Suzerainty of Italy modifier

 

[Darth_bond]

I think that the problem is to keep them around too long. I took this screen right after the mission conmpletion and they were still manageable (and stayed that way for few decades) :

Few years laters, when I was tired to placate them, I diplo-annexed them while taking influence ideas as 4th idea group (which is not optimal but somewhat great because you are pretty much guaranteed to be the papal controller for the rest of the game as the Papal States do not exist anymore so the competition is none existent).

Little tip to reduce your AE is also to diplo-vassal a bunch of italians OPM right before completing the Secure the Alpine Pass as your vassals will normally be inherited by the Pope when clicking. By doing that, they will be more inclined to join your wars against italian countries (as they will be neighbours of your targets) and you'll be able to feed them without much repercussion for yourself.

 

[Richard-monagha]

Pope has almost 1.5k dev in 1730 as my subject (they had 1.2k dev when I boxed them into Italy) so they've been busy developing) but now that I have more dip rep and the 2 abilities from the last age they went from being about 80ish LD with me spending about 2400 to dev them up to lower it (before scum saving to wait till later), to 6% LD with 1500 dev without me needing to spend loads of points to develop them. Once I revoke march I can annex them and even as a vassal instead of march they will remain loyal.

 

[Soepoelse123]

When do you get the pope as a vassal? I’m trying to make a “no aggressive war conquest” France game, and I’m having a tough time getting Naples conquered for myself. Do I need the mission completed or do I get the pope before that branch is necessary?

 

[Richard-monagha]

When do you get the pope as a vassal? I’m trying to make a “no aggressive war conquest” France game, and I’m having a tough time getting Naples conquered for myself. Do I need the mission completed or do I get the pope before that branch is necessary?

You have to complete the mission Papal lands of Avignon while being allied with the pope having max relations and spending papal influence. Then further down the mission tree is the mission Secure the Alpine pass mission. You do this mission and the ones after it (and the napes mission) while being allied to the Pope with high relations.

Basically the whole of northern Italy has to be owned by either you or the Pope or either of your subjects and you will with the missions start lose that land you or your subjects in Italy hold and give it to the Pope for free until you get to the mission treaty of the golden bulls which turns them to kingdom of god and makes them a vassal.

However I recommend not conquering Italy for yourself. Try to make a subject in northern Italy and feed it land or call in the pope and give all you can to the Pope to save you on AE. I fed most to my PU Millan and Provence so I don't waste adm points on coring land I won't be keeping since all land in northern Italy will be transferred to the pope anyways.

 

[Soepoelse123]

You have to complete the mission Papal lands of Avignon while being allied with the pope having max relations and spending papal influence. Then further down the mission tree is the mission Secure the Alpine pass mission. You do this mission and the ones after it (and the napes mission) while being allied to the Pope with high relations.

Basically the whole of northern Italy has to be owned by either you or the Pope or either of your subjects and you will with the missions start lose that land you or your subjects in Italy hold and give it to the Pope for free until you get to the mission treaty of the golden bulls which turns them to kingdom of god and makes them a vassal.

However I recommend not conquering Italy for yourself. Try to make a subject in northern Italy and feed it land or call in the pope and give all you can to the Pope to save you on AE. I fed most to my PU Millan and Provence so I don't waste adm points on coring land I won't be keeping since all land in northern Italy will be transferred to the pope anyways.

I’ve decided to make a run with no AE in offensive wars, so I’m getting the land through diplo vassalizing and favor trading for claims. I’ll probably have to feed the pope in offensive wars, but have him give it back in the south to my Provence vassal to clear the Naples mission.

 

[StixRus]

When do you get the pope as a vassal? I’m trying to make a “no aggressive war conquest” France game, and I’m having a tough time getting Naples conquered for myself. Do I need the mission completed or do I get the pope before that branch is necessary?

You don’t need Naples for the ‘golden bull’ mission. You do need it for the house of god mission.