Unlawful territory and subjects

[MehuKattiMies]

Okay. I play as Burgundy. I conquered Loon from Liege in another war, and gave that to Brabant. I got agressive expansion from that. That is fine, would be too much of an exploit if that went to subject instead of me. But then Austria, who is even allied to me, demanded unlawful territory from Brabant and they gave that province to Liege. Now I just have coalition left, because I also took other province from France. Not really fun when you try to expand, and your subject gives away those provinces.

So, should this game block subjects giving provinces due unlawful territory? Or maybe not ask that from subject, but from overlord.

 

[DDRJake]

I certainly agree.

 

[SuicideSparrow]

Same thing happened to me. Gave Pomerania to my March Teutonic Order (they even had a claim on it), and next thing I know it's been returned due to unlawful territory.

 

[Canute VII]

They are your subjects and you would expect them to obey orders, wouldn't you? If not you'd better not vassalized them in the first place. Committing mistakes is never fun.

 

[SuicideSparrow]

They are your subjects and you would expect them to obey orders, wouldn't you? If not you'd better not vassalized them in the first place. Committing mistakes is never fun.

I expect them to obey MY orders. Not the orders of some other nation that is not their overlord.

 

[Canute VII]

I expect them to obey MY orders. Not the orders of some other nation that is not their overlord.

As its only your vassal and not your territory, there's a point for pdx not to make it a mere puppet. The difference in between own territory and vassalage should mean something. And remember that your hre vassal also is "loyal" to the emperor. Otherwise, what's the point of the hre?

 

[grommile]

They are your subjects and you would expect them to obey orders, wouldn't you? If not you'd better not vassalized them in the first place. Committing mistakes is never fun.

If I want to make claims on someone else's vassal's provinces, I have to build a spy network in the overlord.

If I want to take someone else's vassal's provinces by force, I have to fight the overlord and negotiate with the overlord in the peace deal.

The gameplay logic then naturally indicates that if the emperor wants my vassal to give back a province, he should have to ask me.

 

[SuicideSparrow]

As its only your vassal and not your territory, there's a point for pdx not to make it a mere puppet. The difference in between own territory and vassalage should mean something. And remember that your hre vassal also is "loyal" to the emperor. Otherwise, what's the point of the hre?

Except my vassal was not a member of the HRE!

 

[Ilightmaster]

I certainly agree.

Please do so !!! ^^

 

[Ninaran]

A good compromise might be that demands for unlawful territory go to the overlord but every time he forces a subject, who is also a prince of the HRE, to keep unlawful territory, for that subject to gain +5 or +10% LD für a few years. Non-HRE prince subjects shouldn't care though.