Useless suggestions 9: Give Scotish cultures something similar to the Manchu treatment

[Me_]

One thing that has bothered be a bit for quite a while about Scotland is the fact that the Lowlander and Highlander cultures are in separate culture groups, meaning they are for all practical purposes treated as as close as Aztec and Central Thai. This may not be much of a problem in early game, where you just accept the other one (depending on whether you are standard Scotland or Scotland formed from the Isles)), but as your empire expands you realize, that this accepted culture spot would be better spent on a large culture like Muscovite, Turkish or Manchu.

Now, there are a lot more Scottish players than Manchu ones, so I expect a lot more outraged reactions claiming, that Lowlanders and Highlanders are indeed as similar as Inca and Persians, but nevertheless, I propose the addition of a "Unify Scottish culture" decision.

Requirements: primary culture Scottish or Highlander, owns (directly or via subjects) all Scottish and Highlander culture provinces, has at least 300 development.
Effect:
If primary culture is Scottish all Highlander culture provinces in the world become the new Highlander culture, named highlander_british in the files, which is just the same as Highlander, except it belongs to the British culture group. The new culture becomes accepted.
If primary culture is Highlander all Scottish culture provinces in the world become the new Scottish culture, named scottish_celtic in the files, which is just the same as Scottish, except it belongs to the Celtic culture group. The new culture becomes accepted.

The important things here ar twofold: it does not remove the cultures altoegether, it preserves some distinctions and it does not discriminate by only working one way. It just makes the other Scots less alien if you mangae to build a strong Scotland and if you happen to become Empire you won't ever need to worry about any penalties from the other Scots again.

 

[treb]

One thing that has bothered be a bit for quite a while about Scotland is the fact that the Lowlander and Highlander cultures are in separate culture groups, meaning they are for all practical purposes treated as as close as Aztec and Central Thai. This may not be much of a problem in early game, where you just accept the other one (depending on whether you are standard Scotland or Scotland formed from the Isles)), but as your empire expands you realize, that this accepted culture spot would be better spent on a large culture like Muscovite, Turkish or Manchu.

Now, there are a lot more Scottish players than Manchu ones, so I expect a lot more outraged reactions claiming, that Lowlanders and Highlanders are indeed as similar as Inca and Persians, but nevertheless, I propose the addition of a "Unify Scottish culture" decision.

Requirements: primary culture Scottish or Highlander, owns (directly or via subjects) all Scottish and Highlander culture provinces, has at least 300 development.
Effect:
If primary culture is Scottish all Highlander culture provinces in the world become the new Highlander culture, named highlander_british in the files, which is just the same as Highlander, except it belongs to the British culture group. The new culture becomes accepted.
If primary culture is Highlander all Scottish culture provinces in the world become the new Scottish culture, named scottish_celtic in the files, which is just the same as Scottish, except it belongs to the Celtic culture group. The new culture becomes accepted.

The important things here ar twofold: it does not remove the cultures altoegether, it preserves some distinctions and it does not discriminate by only working one way. It just makes the other Scots less alien if you mangae to build a strong Scotland and if you happen to become Empire you won't ever need to worry about any penalties from the other Scots again.

Culture groups are no longer based of there actual cultures, Welsh is in British and Breton is grouped with the french cultures and a number of Finno-Ugric cultures are split between Norse, East Slavic and Ugric. The simplest solution is to move highlander to British or lowland Scottish to Celtic. Culture groups are now arbitrarily defined partly be geographical regions so its not that big a deal.

 

[neondt]

I think you're underestimating the Highland/Lowland divide in this period. The gameplay scenario you describe in which you find yourself wanting to use the accepted culture slot on something "better" is quite appropriate historically. If we wanted to translate the Highland Clearances into gameplay terms it's pretty close to Expel Minorities.

re: Wales. Wales was thoroughy "Anglicized" followiing the Ango-Norman conquests. It's a very different case than Ireland, which was very successful in resisting this process, or the Highlands, which this process at least somewhat ignored for various reasons.

 

[Me_]

Still, I wish there was a possibility to be less cruel than history.

 

[treb]

Still, I wish there was a possibility to be less cruel than history.

there is, its called not converting province culture, unless you are Byzantium, then everything must be greek, no exceptions.

 

[grommile]

Still, I wish there was a possibility to be less cruel than history.

The Highlands are mostly badclay, so there's no real point to accepting Highlander if you own the whole of the British Isles.

 

[JSparks101]

I think you're underestimating the Highland/Lowland divide in this period. The gameplay scenario you describe in which you find yourself wanting to use the accepted culture slot on something "better" is quite appropriate historically. If we wanted to translate the Highland Clearances into gameplay terms it's pretty close to Expel Minorities.

re: Wales. Wales was thoroughy "Anglicized" followiing the Ango-Norman conquests. It's a very different case than Ireland, which was very successful in resisting this process, or the Highlands, which this process at least somewhat ignored for various reasons.

I totally agree on the Highland/Lowland split, however...

Wales was not "fully Anglicanised". Barely 40 years before the start, a MAJOR revolt under Owain Glyndwr which reconquered 95% of Wales and parts of neighboring Shropshire and Herefordshire. Under which, Owain set up schools in border settlements to try and reconvert areas that became English speaking such as Radnor and Monmouth.

Another point is that Wales was not conquered by the "English", but rather by the "Normans". Those who invaded Wales were the Norman nobility, who settled and became the "Cambro-Normans". At this point, the Welsh that became "Anglicanised" were solely isolated to southern Pembroke, Gower (both areas that survived Owains invasion) and the immediate border, with the nobility being these Cambro-Normans, who intermarried and became their own ruling class, distinct from England. The Marcher Lords had immense influence and power that no other noble in England was afforded.

You can't even suggest that the "Anglicanisation" took place early in the period. At least as far in as Henry VII, we know of immense support for Henry Tudor (Earl of Pembroke, landed near in north-west Wales) and dissatisfaction with London, and it was only in 1536 that the Welsh Marches lost their influence and were abolished by Henry VIII. Surveys from the 1800's show that it was only the border regions, and then the far south (Pembroke, Gower and southern Glamorgan) that spoke English more than Welsh. It was the period 1800-today that the use of Welsh dropped dramatically.

 

[RMS Oceanic]

there is, its called not converting province culture, unless you are Byzantium, then everything must be greek, no exceptions.

Funny, I generally leave Greek alone, and convert lands to Gothic, Pontic, Serbian, Neapolitan, even Turkish, all for getting Particularist Rebels for the impending Absolutism farm.

Speaking of, could we make it easier to get Particularist rebels in your primary culture without planting down Merchants everywhere?

 

[Mr.Grizzly]

I still say that the Celtic culture groups is pointless, if culture groups are suppose to represent geographical area and guide where the AI attacks and what not, move Irish and Highlander to British. I understand and agree that they should be separate, if cultural groups were distributed by what culture/ethnicity they are/were. Just seems odd that most other cultures are thrown in together for no reason than geography, yet Celtic groups still exists and is one of the worst because how small it, I always switch over to English when I conquer Britain as Ireland because it's easier to manager since it's the dominant culture in the region.