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HMAS-Nameless

Tsar of Australiarr
51 Badges
Sep 18, 2009
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One thing that was kind of weird to me that happened in Eu3 was that Muslim countries were named after their dynasty atleast at the start date. This meant that for example if another dynasty came into power in the Ottomans they were still named the Ottomans even though they technically weren't? Maybe bring across the CK2 idea of dynamic title names for Muslims that change if another dynasty comes into power. This could also work for other dynasty-centric entities such as the Chinese Empire and some of the Indian states. To represent the rise of new dynasty maybe an event could fire if revolt risk is high enough or you don't have much legitimacy that creates a new country in one of the regions of your nation (sort of like rebellious governors in Rome). Of course this new nation will get the name of its randomly generated dynasty. Thoughts?
 
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I hope they carry it over, though they need to keep in mind that Muslim dynasties were usually named after the father of the founder (hence Ayyubids for Saladin, the son of Ayyub), not after the founder himself. The Ottomans were the exception.
 
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I Think about that just today, I agree with you. This is EUIV, a great sequel of a great game, in my opinion things like that for flavour should be solved. Also becouse the devs says that you play the country and not the Charater\Dinasty\Etc... for that Timurids, Ottomans, Mameluks but also Ming etc... should rapresent countries and not necessary a dinasty.

Why if my China is no more guided by Ming Dinasty, mantain Ming as name?
 
I agree that this should be done.
 
I hope they carry it over, though they need to keep in mind that Muslim dynasties were usually named after the father of the founder (hence Ayyubids for Saladin, the son of Ayyub), not after the founder himself. The Ottomans were the exception.
the ottomans were not an exception. it is originally osmanlı empire meaning osman's empire. i dont know why they are called ottomans in english
 
Do we know whether they will still have dynasties in? Seem to cause more trouble than do good in the simplified model they used in HTTT (vs. the one in CKII). If they won't, this wouldn't be an issue. If they will, I guess it's not really fixable either way - who's to say when a country should change name, apart from the very unlikely historical cases? If I'm Persia and my dynasty changes from say... Timurid to something randomly generated, should Persia now be called by a version of that name?
 
Do we know whether they will still have dynasties in? Seem to cause more trouble than do good in the simplified model they used in HTTT (vs. the one in CKII). If they won't, this wouldn't be an issue. If they will, I guess it's not really fixable either way - who's to say when a country should change name, apart from the very unlikely historical cases? If I'm Persia and my dynasty changes from say... Timurid to something randomly generated, should Persia now be called by a version of that name?

Well, any country that is already called by the dynasty name (Timurid, Ming, Ottoman, etc) should really change if the dynasty ruling it changes. There should also be something that finds an appropriate name if they switch to a republic (Ming > China (if it's free), Ottoman > Turkey/Turkish Republic/Turkic Republic (again if free), or a theocracy. Of course, this assumes there is an appropriate name to be used...
 
i would like this,although the ottoman term of name later evolved from a founder of dynasty to encompassing a culture group (ottoman turks)like what happened with the seljuk turks.But it's root come from the Osman
 
Well, any country that is already called by the dynasty name (Timurid, Ming, Ottoman, etc) should really change if the dynasty ruling it changes. There should also be something that finds an appropriate name if they switch to a republic (Ming > China (if it's free), Ottoman > Turkey/Turkish Republic/Turkic Republic (again if free), or a theocracy. Of course, this assumes there is an appropriate name to be used...

Vicky II is kind of like that with names changing along with governments.

A combination of Vicky II and Sword of Islam's naming systems would be awesome.
 
We really do need Victoria's name / flag changing system. I can't think of a single mechanic in all of PI's history that potentially adds more flavour to a game than that. It's so easily applicable to EU too.

You could have the Timurids under the Mughal tag. As a tribal/nomadic government, they're called the Timurids. When they get a more civilized government type, they become the Mughals, for example. Please make it happen, PI! ;)
 
Thing about China is that "China" come from the first imperial dynasty, Qin (pronunced as "chin", more or less). I'm not sure about this but the english name at the time was more like Empire of Ming then Empire of Qing, or Central Empire, and the proper way to name china in chinese is Zhongguo (literally the State of the Middle)

Anyway naming some states by their dynastic name is a good idea in a dynastic strategy/RPG like CK2, but makes little sense in Europa Universalis where there is no dynastic system on no influence from the players.

The name of your nation would change at random, and you would have no control over it.
 
Ottoman Empire is incorrect name which has given by the Republic of Turkey in early 20th century. There were political reasons to do it. There is no reason today. Unfortunately, Ottoman Empire name is consuetudinary now. Correct name is Turkish Empire, for gameplay, it must be Turkey, because government types can change.

There are many old maps to support my argument:
356f8841d44e1ab87677036186b20.jpg


Map from 1317 - Nova Imperii Turcarum: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/69/Cc-1317-a_0001_1_p24-C-R0072-1-.jpg
Map from 1559 - TVRQVIA: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/99/Diego-homem-black-sea-ancient-map-1559.jpg
Homann Map - Imperium Turcicum: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e8/Map_of_Imperium_Turcicum.JPG
Map from 1634 - Turcici Imperii: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/24/Mercator-Hondius_(1634)_Ottoman_Empire.jpg
Map from 1609 - Turcici Imperii: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Mercator-Hondius-1609-Ottoman_Empire.jpg
Map from Ortelius - Tvrcici Imperii: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/94/Abraham_Ortelius_-_Tvrcici_imperii_descriptio.jpg
Map from Totius - Turcici Imperii: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3f/Turcici_imperii_tabula_Ottoman_Empire.jpg

1719: http://www.bergbook.com/images/22300-01.jpg
1760: http://www.bergbook.com/images/20603-01.jpg
1769: http://www.bergbook.com/images/19652-01.jpg
1817: http://www.bergbook.com/images/18916-01.jpg
1820: http://www.bergbook.com/images/20912-01.jpg
1836: http://www.bergbook.com/images/20120-01.jpg
1849: http://www.bergbook.com/images/18923-01.jpg
1852: http://www.bergbook.com/images/18924-01.jpg
1856: http://www.bergbook.com/images/20995-01.jpg

More:
http://www.oldmapgallery.com/catalog/lg_images/dejode_natoliam_turcia_turcicive.JPG
http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/af4/f4303.jpg
http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/af1/f1827.jpg
http://www.oldmapsbooks.com/WebPictures/2005/july/july22a/july22turkishempire.JPG
http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/ai/e2270.jpg
http://www.antiqueprints.com/images/af2/f2148.jpg

f7970d85a90f68cabe683579cc843.jpg
 
Ottoman Empire is incorrect name which has given by the Republic of Turkey in early 20th century. There were political reasons to do it. There is no reason today. Unfortunately, Ottoman Empire name is consuetudinary now. Correct name is Turkish Empire, for gameplay, it must be Turkey, because government types can change.
You can see Russia is called on some of these maps as "Moscovia" or "Tataria". So should we change everything to feat the 16th-18th centuries European scholars tradition in geography naming?:)