Hello, I hope February is off to a good start for you!
I recently did a roleplay run as a wanderer from England and ended up in India adopting Gujarati culture. I noticed that it came with vegetarianism, which seemed cool, so I was hoping for some unique interactions with it seen as it takes an entire cultural slot.
However, I got the same events and text about munching on boar, fish, hare, etc. I could still go fishing and, while hunting as a decision was banned, I still got random wanderer hunting events without any repercussions and the cultural tradition seemed to have zero impact on the character or story. It actually upset me a little that my character apparently only practiced vegetarianism in that he wouldn't be the one to click the hunt button, but he seemed very eager to participate in them and feast on flesh!
I know it is not a huge deal, but if any devs read this, it would mean a lot to me if something could be done to make this cultural tradition a bit more functional/impactful. My bias is showing I suppose, but I come from a vegetarian family myself and it's a very important value for our faith/traditions, in the same way Halal or Kosher is for Muslims and Jews. I am sincere when I say I would rather starve than eat meat, and I know there are/were millions of others in history around the world who felt the same.
Obviously Paradox know the game's situation better than me, so I don't mean to impose, though I do have a few ideas which I hope might be valuable in a small way:
1) Make vegetarian into a trait rather than a tradition – Just like we already have the option to reject inheritance or become celibate, perhaps it would be an easy solution to allow certain characters to adopt vegetarianism. Many different people from across Europe, Asia and Africa practiced vegetarianism outside of their cultural traditions, but right now it’s limited to a cultural tradition that is only present in 1 small culture in the entire game! For some examples of how widespread the practice was, many different orders of Christian monks followed vegetarian lifestyles, as did the entire followers of the Cathar and Waldensian faiths which are present in-game but without vegetarianism represented. Copts in Egypt, Sudan and Ethiopia also followed the practice if they were very pious. Sufi mystics would sometimes also become vegetarian to cleanse their souls. Famously of course, Buddhists of all schools were often vegetarians, as were Jains, Taoists and Hindus. Neoplatonists in the Byzantine empire also practiced vegetarianism, as did some doctors who believed it was better for health. All of this is to show that vegetarianism was a worldwide belief that transcended religions and culture. Perhaps if following one of these mentioned religions, taking the restraint perk in the Whole of Body lifestyle, being a wise man/gardener/physician or being a member of certain cultures like Burmese, a character should be able to take a decision to embrace vegetarianism?
2) The effects of the vegetarian trait - I’m no expert at balancing, so please forgive me, but going off Paradox’s current effects of the cultural tradition version of vegetarianism, the trait could confer the current small health bonus, some minor monthly piety gain and give a little opinion buff/penalty to other characters depending on the character's faith and personality? Christians would be likely to respect a vegetarian as it showed restraint, but a gluttonous character would see it as pointless perhaps? Likewise, in faiths/cultures with no history of vegetarianism (like the Norse), then it shouldn’t give any opinion buff.
3) Allow vegetarians to host hunts and go fishing at the cost of stress and opinion loss with characters who have the vegetarian trait – Seen as compassionate people can still plot to murder, why not allow vegetarians to contradict themselves? I suppose, technically, hunting isn’t the same as eating, and hunts were an important part of medieval court politics, so banning vegetarians from hosting them is a little detrimental. Admittedly, I wouldn’t go hunting IRL, but I can see ambitious or less zealous vegetarians going hunting for the sake of prestige, good relations or to avoid antagonising their liege.
4) Change the flavour text related to eating meat – Right now it is a little silly that a vegetarian is so happy to disregard their beliefs the moment they smell some sausages cooking. While I’m not from Gujarat, I certainly wouldn’t forget my values just because I spotted a fat deer in the woods! Just as Muslims wouldn’t drink alcohol at a feast, a vegetarian character shouldn’t be eating meat. It matters more than you might think and unfortunately ruins the immersion in the same way as if a homosexual character started flirting with the wrong gender during events.
5) Change/add new options to events related to animals – This one is the least important, as we normally have one way or another of avoiding killing/eating animals in events if we have to, and I know this takes the most work so please ignore it if so, but if at all possible, it would be nice to always have the option to just… not have to hurt animals.
I’m sorry for my long wall of text, but I hope my point carried through. I love this game and I’m very thankful for all of the extremely hard work the devs have put into it, so I hope that none of what I said is read as criticism! It would just mean a lot to me and other vegetarians/vegans if we could be slightly better represented. Gujarat is an interesting place to play in CK3 but it is a shame that Paradox did the work to add vegetarianism as a cultural tradition just for it to only be used in such a small area of the map!
Anyway, thank you for reading this, whoever you may be, I really appreciate your time. Have a good day and best wishes, and have a lovely weekend tomorrow! Cheers!
I recently did a roleplay run as a wanderer from England and ended up in India adopting Gujarati culture. I noticed that it came with vegetarianism, which seemed cool, so I was hoping for some unique interactions with it seen as it takes an entire cultural slot.
However, I got the same events and text about munching on boar, fish, hare, etc. I could still go fishing and, while hunting as a decision was banned, I still got random wanderer hunting events without any repercussions and the cultural tradition seemed to have zero impact on the character or story. It actually upset me a little that my character apparently only practiced vegetarianism in that he wouldn't be the one to click the hunt button, but he seemed very eager to participate in them and feast on flesh!
I know it is not a huge deal, but if any devs read this, it would mean a lot to me if something could be done to make this cultural tradition a bit more functional/impactful. My bias is showing I suppose, but I come from a vegetarian family myself and it's a very important value for our faith/traditions, in the same way Halal or Kosher is for Muslims and Jews. I am sincere when I say I would rather starve than eat meat, and I know there are/were millions of others in history around the world who felt the same.
Obviously Paradox know the game's situation better than me, so I don't mean to impose, though I do have a few ideas which I hope might be valuable in a small way:
1) Make vegetarian into a trait rather than a tradition – Just like we already have the option to reject inheritance or become celibate, perhaps it would be an easy solution to allow certain characters to adopt vegetarianism. Many different people from across Europe, Asia and Africa practiced vegetarianism outside of their cultural traditions, but right now it’s limited to a cultural tradition that is only present in 1 small culture in the entire game! For some examples of how widespread the practice was, many different orders of Christian monks followed vegetarian lifestyles, as did the entire followers of the Cathar and Waldensian faiths which are present in-game but without vegetarianism represented. Copts in Egypt, Sudan and Ethiopia also followed the practice if they were very pious. Sufi mystics would sometimes also become vegetarian to cleanse their souls. Famously of course, Buddhists of all schools were often vegetarians, as were Jains, Taoists and Hindus. Neoplatonists in the Byzantine empire also practiced vegetarianism, as did some doctors who believed it was better for health. All of this is to show that vegetarianism was a worldwide belief that transcended religions and culture. Perhaps if following one of these mentioned religions, taking the restraint perk in the Whole of Body lifestyle, being a wise man/gardener/physician or being a member of certain cultures like Burmese, a character should be able to take a decision to embrace vegetarianism?
2) The effects of the vegetarian trait - I’m no expert at balancing, so please forgive me, but going off Paradox’s current effects of the cultural tradition version of vegetarianism, the trait could confer the current small health bonus, some minor monthly piety gain and give a little opinion buff/penalty to other characters depending on the character's faith and personality? Christians would be likely to respect a vegetarian as it showed restraint, but a gluttonous character would see it as pointless perhaps? Likewise, in faiths/cultures with no history of vegetarianism (like the Norse), then it shouldn’t give any opinion buff.
3) Allow vegetarians to host hunts and go fishing at the cost of stress and opinion loss with characters who have the vegetarian trait – Seen as compassionate people can still plot to murder, why not allow vegetarians to contradict themselves? I suppose, technically, hunting isn’t the same as eating, and hunts were an important part of medieval court politics, so banning vegetarians from hosting them is a little detrimental. Admittedly, I wouldn’t go hunting IRL, but I can see ambitious or less zealous vegetarians going hunting for the sake of prestige, good relations or to avoid antagonising their liege.
4) Change the flavour text related to eating meat – Right now it is a little silly that a vegetarian is so happy to disregard their beliefs the moment they smell some sausages cooking. While I’m not from Gujarat, I certainly wouldn’t forget my values just because I spotted a fat deer in the woods! Just as Muslims wouldn’t drink alcohol at a feast, a vegetarian character shouldn’t be eating meat. It matters more than you might think and unfortunately ruins the immersion in the same way as if a homosexual character started flirting with the wrong gender during events.
5) Change/add new options to events related to animals – This one is the least important, as we normally have one way or another of avoiding killing/eating animals in events if we have to, and I know this takes the most work so please ignore it if so, but if at all possible, it would be nice to always have the option to just… not have to hurt animals.
I’m sorry for my long wall of text, but I hope my point carried through. I love this game and I’m very thankful for all of the extremely hard work the devs have put into it, so I hope that none of what I said is read as criticism! It would just mean a lot to me and other vegetarians/vegans if we could be slightly better represented. Gujarat is an interesting place to play in CK3 but it is a shame that Paradox did the work to add vegetarianism as a cultural tradition just for it to only be used in such a small area of the map!
Anyway, thank you for reading this, whoever you may be, I really appreciate your time. Have a good day and best wishes, and have a lovely weekend tomorrow! Cheers!
- 3
- 1
