Victory Points (VP)

[Shadow Knight]

Seeing as how VP are the key to puppeting states and annexing them we really need to discuss the revaluing of their current placement. So I propose we use this thread for discussing of VP's.


An idea I had is give all provinces in Europe one victory point. The exception to this would be several provinces would have a rating of two or three (i.e. Berlin, London, etc. Those being the most important or perhaps in the case of Serbia, to help them from being annexed to quickly, a province in Macedonia could have a rating of two.).

The rest of the world can be just cut down to one VP for the more important provinces. One exception to this would be the good ol' US of A. Like Europe just give them one for each one of the states, one for Panama Canal, and say two or three for D.C., New York, and let's say San Fransico and Seattle (So the CP's actually have to conquer the whole US to annex it.).

Okay that is my two cents, feel free to pick this apart offer up your own ideas, etc.

 

[C.V. Mannerheim]

As for the US VP's if you are going to make DC 3 and San Fransisco and New York 2 i suggest making Saint Louis 2 also, as she was also one of the 'Three Sisters' of San Fran, and NY


CvM

 

[StephenT]

Why not base VPs loosely on ICs or resources? Say, anywhere with 15 or more of anything gets +1 VPs, 40 or more +2. (top-of-the-head figures). Then also give bonuses to political centres (such as Washington DC, which I'm not aware has much in the way of useful industry ) or areas of great sentimental value (Verdun, for France).

Also, I don't think provinces without any resources (if there are such things) or with zero infrastructure should count for victory points at all, even if they're in Europe. The Pyrenées or the Pripyet Marshes, for example.

 

[Shadow Knight]

Perhaps St. Louis and New Orleans?

Stephen, that sounds fine with me. Although some special circumstances may need to be taken into account, but we can change those areas after the Beta is held.

 

[C.V. Mannerheim]

If you want shdwknightx, i can do some research into what American Areas should have VP's

 

[unmerged(16020)]

Remember guys, VP's are based on strategic importance during the war. When the US joins the war with 60+ VP's, will the Central Powers still lose the game even if they conquer France and Italy?

 

[Shadow Knight]

Originally posted by C.V. Mannerheim
If you want shdwknightx, i can do some research into what American Areas should have VP's

Sure, if you got the time and inclination.

Originally posted by Lunar
Remember guys, VP's are based on strategic importance during the war. When the US joins the war with 60+ VP's, will the Central Powers still lose the game even if they conquer France and Italy?

It shouldn't. France should have more VP's than the US. The key is to balance the US right so that if some adventurous player tries to invade them, they practically have to conquer the whole US before they can annex them (So we don't get a capture New York and D.C. and then annex the US scenario.).

 

[C.V. Mannerheim]

Good, I'll have them by this Afternoon

 

[Shadow Knight]

StephenT has made some good suggestions for VP's so far, but we need to really come to a decisive conclusion on how we are going to give out VP's.

So here is what I propose (Note this might need tweaking in beta and for territories outside Europe, but for simplicities sake I am going to just suggest for now uniformity.):

Political:
Capital for major powers - +10 VP's
Capital for minor powers - +5 VP's

Strategic Locations:
Critical Straights - +2 VP's (i.e. Panama Canal)
Provinces - +1 VP (i.e. Malta)

Industrial Centers:
Less than 10 IC - +1 VP
10 to 20 IC's - +2 VP's
20 to 35 IC's - +3 VP's

Resource Centers:
One resource type - +1 VP
Two resource types - +2 VP's
Three resource types +3 VP's
Four resource types - +4 VP's
Five resource types - +5 VP's
(Resources being Coal, Steel, Rubber, Oil, and Manpower. Thus if a province has just one of those type of resources it gets on a +1 VP to its total overall VP score.)

Infrastructure:
Less than 34 - - 1 VP (Obviously zero is the minimum VP.)

Rules:
Just see whether the province meets any of these conditions then add them up and get the total.


I don't think I have forgotten anything, but feel free to say whether this sucks, or offer suggestions.

 

[C.V. Mannerheim]

Ok, here's The 'Rough Draft'


United States Territories that require VP's:

Washington DC: 10 Depending on Amount of VP Points that are standard for a Capital
New York*: 8 United States' Largest Port and City
Chicago: 4 Steel, Lumber, Machinery Base
St. Louis*: 3 Trade Center, Link Between Eastern and Western US (Our Interior wasnt quite as populated as it is today)
San Fransicso*: 3 MajoR Port on West Coast
Boston: 3 Large Population Center, Major Port
Pittsburgh: 2 Large Steel Center
Philadelphia: 2 Large Population, Lumber, Railroad
Buffalo: 2 Major Steal Center
New Orleans: 1 Major Port on Southern Coast
Los Angeles: 1 Another Major Port on West Coast
Panama Canal: 2 Link Between Atlantic and Pacific

Total: 41


* One of the 'Three Sisters'

also, will the Philippines be treated as a US Puppet or as a US Territory?

 

[C.V. Mannerheim]

Lol, you beat my post, let me edit mine real quick:


~Edit, updated Using ur Criteria

 

[StephenT]

To balance this, should the Central Powers (GER+AH+OE) start the game with equal VPs to the Entente (FRA+RUS+SER+UK)? Which might mean that, once we've calculated the raw VPs according to your formula, we need to add a hefty "Germany weighting"

 

[Shadow Knight]

Originally posted by StephenT
To balance this, should the Central Powers (GER+AH+OE) start the game with equal VPs to the Entente (FRA+RUS+SER+UK)? Which might mean that, once we've calculated the raw VPs according to your formula, we need to add a hefty "Germany weighting"

Tough question. I want to hold off answering with a resounding yes or no until the VP's are calculated. However, my initial thoughts on the matter are that if the CP is at least ~2/3 of the Entente then that's okay with me. My thinking is that the Central Powers are going to need to do a bit of occupying to make up for their shortfalls. (We may need to give the border provinces of both sides (FR/GER(/RUS?)) that + 1 VP to represent strategic provinces.)


On a side note we could also have in the peace events, if need be, a onetime bonus to VP's (at least I think you can do this).

 

[C.V. Mannerheim]

Are there any other countries you would like me to get?

 

[Shadow Knight]

Originally posted by C.V. Mannerheim
Are there any other countries you would like me to get?

Sure, if you could do all of them that would be great.

But if your desire to help is not that great then any countries in Europe would be a great help.

 

[C.V. Mannerheim]

Originally posted by shdwknightx
Sure, if you could do all of them that would be great.

But if your desire to help is not that great then any countries in Europe would be a great help.

LOL its notmy desire to help that may hold me back, its this bloody thing called 'Homework' and 'high school' that prohibits me from doing that much

Ill do what i can.

CvM

 

[Shadow Knight]

Okay I have made some changes to how I distributed VP Values:

Political:
Capital for major powers - +10 VP's
Capital for minor powers - +5 VP's

Strategic Locations:
Critical Straights - +2 VP's (i.e. Panama Canal)
Provinces - +1 VP (i.e. Malta)

Industrial Centers(Europe/NA/SA/AUS/NZ):
Less than 10 IC - +1 VP
10 to 20 IC's - +2 VP's
20 to 35 IC's - +3 VP's

Industrial Centers(Non-Europe/NA/SA/AUS/NZ):
Less than 20 IC - +0 VP
20 to 35 IC's - +1 VP's
35+ IC's - +2 VP's

Resource Centers:
One resource type (Non-Europe/NA/SA/AUS/NZ) - +0 VP
Two resource types (Non-Europe/NA/SA/AUS/NZ) - +1 VP's
One to Three resource types (Europe/NA/SA/AUS/NZ) - +1 VP's
Four or five resource types - +2 VP's
(Resources being Coal, Steel, Rubber, Oil, and Manpower. Thus if a province has just one of those type of resources it gets on a +1 VP to its total overall VP score.)

Infrastructure:
Less than 34 - - 1 VP (Obviously zero is the minimum VP.)

Rules:
Just see whether the province meets any of these conditions then add them up and get the total.

Note: I fudged some of this, such as in the case of Belgium gave the Kongo a VP that it would not normally get to prevent annexation/puppeting (Or at least I hope it prevents it).

 

[Shadow Knight]

Some values so far. (May need to be adjusted if any more IC's/resources are given out to the provinces.)


Germany's Vp points:

Memel 2
Konigsberg 2
Elbing 2
Danzig 2
Bydgoszcz 2
Poznan 2
Oppeln 2
Breslau 3
Dresden 2
Berlin 14
Rostock 3
Lubeck 3
Kiel 2
Hamburg 4
Hannover 4
Magdeburg 3
Halle 3
Leipzig 2
Erfurt 2
Wilhemshafen 3
Munster 3
Frankfurt am Main 4
Essen 4
Koln 3
Saarbrucken 3
Strassbourg 2
Colmar 2
Mannheim 2
Wurtzburg 2
Nurnberg 3
Munchen 3
Stuttgart 3
Freiburg 2
Konstanz 2
Dar es Salaam 1
Windhoek 1

Luxembourg's VP points:
Luxembourg 2

Denmark's VP points:
Kobenhaven 10
Ronne 1
Odense 2
Kolding 2
Aarhus 2
Akureyri 1
Reykjavik 1

Norway's VP points:
Oslo 7
Kristiansand 2
Stavonger 2
Bergen 2
Hamar 2
Alesund 1
Roros 1
Trondheim 2
Mo i Rana 2
Narvik 2

Sweden's VP points:
Kiruna 2
Gallivere 2
Lulea 2
Umea 2
Sundsvall 2
Ostersund 2
Gaule 2
Falun 2
Karlstad 2
Stockholm 8
Orebro 2
Norrkoping 2
Goteburg 2
Kalmar 2
Malmo 2
Karlskrona 2
Borgholm 1
Visby 2

Montenegro's VP points:
Podegorica 7

Switzerland's VP points:
Geneva 2
Laussanne 2
Zurich 2
Bern 7

Belium's VP points:
Antwerpen 3
Arlon 3
Bruxelles 9
Stanleyville 1/x (I am unsure of an exact value to prevent Germany from annexing Belgium or puppeting them so an value between one or x that can do this should be done.)

Romania's VP points:
Craiova 2
Iasi 2
Dobrich 2
Constanta 2
Ploesti 2
Bucharest 8

Bulgaria's VP points:
Varna 2
Ruse 2
Thessalonika 2
Plovidiv 2
Sofia 9

Greece's VP points:
Iraklion 2
Chalkis 1
Argostoli 1
Patrai 2
Ioannina 2
Agrinion 2
Larissa 2
Athinai 9

Albania's VP points:
Tirana 7
Vlore 2

Serbia's VP points: Skopje 2
Pristina 2
Nis 2
Novi Pasar 1
kraljevo 2
Valjevo 2
Beograd 8

Portugal's VP points:
Porto 2
Lissabon 8
Portalegre 2
Evora 2
Faro 2
Macao 1
Azores 1

Spain's VP points:
Vigo 2
Gijon 3
Burgos 2
Bilbao 2
Pamplona 2
Huesca 2
Barcelona 2
Lleida 2
Valladolid 2
Zaragoza 2
Salamanca 2
Madrid 8
Badajoz 2
Cuenca 2
Tortosa 2
Valencia 2
Cordoba 2
Albacete 2
Sevilla 2
Malaga 2
Granada 2
Almercia 1
Caragena 2
San Francisco Havren 1
Ibiza 1
Palma 2

Netherlands' VP points:
Eindhoven 3
Arnhem 2
Groningen 2
Amsterdam 9
Batavia 1/x (I am unsure of an exact value to prevent someone from annexin or puppeting them outrighte so a value between one or x that can do this should be done.)

Liberia's VP points:
Monrovia 5

Italy's VP points:
Mogadishu 1
Tripoli 1
Dodecanisos 2
Rhodos 1
Cagliari 2
Siracusa 2
Messina 2
Taranto 2
Cesenza 2
Potenza 2
Bari 2
Napoli 3
Roma 14
Ancona 2
Firenze 2
Bologna 2
Parma 3
La Spezia 2
Genoa 3
Torino 3
Milano 3
Venezia 2

Sanusia's VP points:
Al Khufran 1 (This should get Italy to invade them early on.)

Austria-Hungry's VP points:
Bolzano 2
Bregenz 2
Innsbruck 2
Klgaenfurt 2
Salzburg 2
Graz 2
Linz 2
Horn 2
Wien 14
Llubljana 2
Rijeka 2
Split 2
Dubrovnik 2
Mostar 1
Banja Luka 2
Sarajevo 2
Zagreb 2
Osijek 2
Szombathely 2
Pecs 2
Veszprem 2
Budapest 9 (I gave an extra 5 VP's to Budapest as though it were a minor capital, since the Hungarians had a were equal status to the Germans in the empire I felt that their 'capital' should be worth a bit more.)
Szeged 2
Novi Sad 2
Dobrecen 2
Oradea 2
Avad 2
Timisoara 2
Sibiu 1
Cluj - Napoca 2
Piatra - Neamt 2
Lwow 2
Munkas 2
Przemysl 2
Kosice 2
Cieszyn 2
Ruzomberok 2
Lucenec 2
Bratislavia 2
Slavkov 2
Toppau 2
Reichenburg 2
Praha 4
Neuhasu 2
Winterburg 2
Plzen 2
Karlsbad 2


Hopefully I spelled/typed everything right but I am sure you get the idea. I will get to the others in a while.

 

[unmerged(11486)]

I think every US province should have 1 VP, except New York and Washington, which could have 2 or 3, as it is in HoI. The idea is to prevent annexation without going through hell and back.

As for the rest of the world, it looks good.

Steele

 

[Shadow Knight]

Okay I got all the VP's done. I just need to type it up. So I shall see how far I can get before my hand can not type no more.

Some notes: I let the Ottoman Empire use Europe rules to convince the AI to invade their choice VP territory.

Russia uses Europe rules until the OB river, where Siberia gets special treatment.

I fudged the US in some places, usually down, so as when they join the war they don't give to much of a bonus in VP's.

GB is one hell of a monster in VP's, but since they contain the whole of the Commonwealth I am okay with that.


France's VP points:

Lille 2
Sedan 2
Amiens 2
Rouen 2
Reims 2
Chaumont 2
Metz 2
Nancy 2
Troyes 2
Dijon 2
Auxerre 2
Bourges 2
Paris 14
Orleans 2
Le Mons 2
Caen 2
Cherbourg 2
Saint Malo 2
Nantes 2
Lorient 2
Brest 2
D' Osseunt 2
Saint Entienne 2
Besacon 2
Grenoble 2
Lyon 2
Toulon 2
Marseilles 2
Nimes 2
Montpellier 2
Tarbes 2
Auch 2
Bayonne 2
Bordeaux 2
La Rochelle 2
Cholet 2
Potiers 2
Chateauroux 2
Vichy 2
Rodez 2
Clermont-Ferrand 2
Toulouse 2
Perlgueux 2
Limoges 2
Bastia 2
Tunis 1
Algiers 1
Casablanca 1
Saigon 1
Hanoi 1

Hedjaz VP points:
Medina 1
Mecka 5

Jebel Shammar VP points:
Buraydah 5

Nejd VP points:
Riyadh 5

Yemen VP points:
Sana 5

Oman VP points:
Muscat 5

Ottoman Empire VP points:
Istanbul 15
Mitilini 1
Bursa 2
Izmir 2
Antalya 2
Izmit 2
Eskisehir 2
Zonguldak 2
Morsin 2
Konya 2
Ankara 2
Samson 2
Trabzon 2
Sivas 2
Erzurum 2
Malatya 2
kayseri 2
Gaziantep 2
Diyarbakir 2
Van 2
Kirkuk 3
Baghdad 4
An-Nasririyah 1
Basrah 2
Mosul 2
Rawah 2
Aleppo 2
Homs 2
Damascus 3
Beirut 1
Jerusalem 1
Amman 1

Persia's VP points:
Tehran 6
Abadan 1

Afghanistan's VP points:
Kabul 6
Kandahar 1

Nepal's VP points:
Katmandu 5

Bhutan's VP points:
Punakha 5

Tibet's VP points:
Lhasa 5

Thailand's VP points:
Bangkok 7

Mongolia's VP points:
Ulan Batar 6

Japan's VP points:
Taihoku 1
Hejo 1
Sinuiju 1
Fukuoka 1
Hiroshima 1
Tokyo 8
Fukushima 1
Sendai 1
Sapparo 1

Argentina's VP points:
Buenos Aires 6
Cordoba 1
Commodor Rivadavia 1

Chile's VP points:
Santiago 7
Antafugasta 1

Uruguay's VP points:
Montevideo 6

Paraguay's VP points:
Asuncion 7

Bolivia's VP points:
La Paz 5

Brazil's VP points:
Rio de Janeiro 7
San Paulo 2
Maraba 1
Boa Vista 1

Peru's VP points:
Lima 6

Ecuador's VP points:
Quito 7

Columbia's VP points:
Cartagena 1
Bogota 7

Venezuela's VP points:
Maracaibo 2
Cumana 1
Caracas 8

Haiti's VP points:
Port-au-Prince 6

Dominican Republic's VP points:
Santo Domingo 7

Cuba's VP points:
Camaguey 1
La Habana 6

Panama's VP points:
Panama City 6

Costa Rica's VP points:
San Jose 7

Nicaragua's VP points:
Nanagua 7

Honduras' VP points:
Tegucigalpa 7

El Salvador's VP points:
San Salvador 6

Guatemala's VP points:
Guatemala City 7

Mexico's VP points:
Merida 1
Veracruz 1
Mexico City 7

Mexican Rebels' VP points:
Monerrey 7
Chihuahua 1
Cullacan 1

USA's VP points: (revised)
Manila 2
Colon 2
Los Angeles 3
San Bernadino 2
Sacramento 2
San Fransisco 3
Las Vegas 1
Portland 1
Bures 1
Seattle 2
Spokane 1
Idaho Falls 1
Salt Lake City 1
Pheonix 1
Alburquerque 1
Denver 2
Cheyenne 1
Great Falls 1
Bismarck 1
Rapid City 1
Omaha 2
Kansas City 2
Tulsa 2
Dallas 2
San Antonio 2
Houstan 4
New Orleans 2
Shreveport 1
Littlerock 2
Springfield 2
St. Louis 3
Des Moines 2
Minneapolis 3
Marquette 2
Milwaukee 2
Detroit 3
Cleveland 5
Indianapolis 3
Chicago 4
Louisville 3
Nashville 4
Jackson 2
Mobile 3
Miami 2
Atlanta 3
Columbia 2
Charlotte 3
Washington D.C, 14
Philadelphia 3
Pittsburgh 5
New York 5
Buffalo 2
Boston 3
Concord 2

China's VP points:
Urumqi 1
Changchun 1
Jinzhou 1
Beijing 5
Taiyuan 1
Shijian Zhuang 1
Tianjin 1
Xinxiang 1
Handan 1
Guanzhou 1
Liuzhou 1
Zunyi 1
Changsha 1
Nanjing 1
Zhengzhou 1
Xianjang 2
Yanan 2

GB's VP points:
St. John's 1
Havre-Saint-Pierre 1
Quebec 1
Montreal 2
Ottawa 1
Toronto 1
Sudburg 2
Winnepeg 1
Regina 2
Calgary 2
Prince Rupert 1
Victoria (CAN) 1
Auckland 2
Hamilton 1
Wellington 2
Christchurch 1
Hobart 1
Melbourne 2
Wagga Wagga 1
Adelaide 1
Port Augusta 1
Perth 1
Carnarvon 1
Port Lincoln 1
Port Hedland 2
Broome 1
Katherine 1
Darwin 1
Sydney 2
New Castle 2
Tamworth 1
Mitchell 2
Brisbane 2
Canberra 2
Rockhampton 1
Charters Towers 1
Cairns 1
Shanghai 1
Singapore 1
Calcutta 1
Delhi 1
Kuwait 1
El Arish 1
Suez 2
Alexandria 1
Mombasa 1
Johannesburg 2
Upington 2
Bloemfentein 2
Durban 2
East London 2
Beauford West 1
Capetown 2
Vanrhynsdorp 1
Lagos 1
Gibraltor 2
Malta 1
Cork 2
Limerick 2
Galway 2
Dublin 2
Belfast 2
Scapa Flow 1
Inverness 2
Perth 2
Glasgow 3
Edinburgh 2
New Castle 3
Sheffield 2
Manchester 3
Cardiff 2
Birmingham 4
Bristol 3
Plymouth 2
Southhampton 2
Portsmouth 2
Coventry 3
London 14

Russia's VP points: (some numbers may need to be changed when IC levels are cut)
Viipuri 2
Helsinki 4
Turku 2
Tampere 2
Pori 2
Vaasa 2
Oulu 2
Archangelsk 2
Murmansk 2
Belomorsk 1
Petrozavsdsk 1
St. Petersburg (Leningrad) 14 (Unless Moscow is the capital then switch VP with it.)
Novgorod 2
Borovotji 2
Bezjetsk 2
Velikijelvki 2
Pskov 2
Rezekne 1
Tallinn 2
Riga 2
Vitebsk 2
Mogiljov 2
Bobrujsk 2
Minsk 2
Grodno 1
Wilno 1
Siavliai 2
Davgavpils 2
Liepaja 2
Kaunas 2
Suwalki 2
Torun 2
Bialystok 1
Ostroleka 1
Brzesc Nad 1
Bugiem 1
Pinsk 1
Rowne 1
Sandomierz 1
Lublin 2
Warszawa 3
Radom 1
Lodz 2
Czestomchowa 2
Krakow 2
Mozyr 1
Zjitomir 2
Vinnytsa 2
Beltsy 2
Chisinau 2
Kotovsk 2
Kirovograd 2
Dnepropetrovsk 2
Odessa 2
Sevastopol 3
Stalino 2
Donetsk 2
Rostov 2
Morozovsk 1
Millerovo 2
Stary Oskol 2
Kharkov 2
Kiev 2
Chernigov 2
Kursk 2
Bryansk 2
Gomel 2
Smolensk 2
Kaluga 2
Tula 2
Ryazan 2
Moscow 4
Kalinn 2
Rybinsk 2
Nizjnij Novgorod 2
Lipetsk 2
Voronezh 2
Tambov 2
Balasjov 1
Saratov 2
(Stalingrad) 3
Krasnodor 2
Majkop 2
Stravopol 2
Batumi 2
Kars 2
Tblisi 2
Jerevan 2
Krovabad 2
Baku 2
Groznyj 2
Serov 2
Pervouralsk 2
Molotov 1
Tjumen 2
Sverdlovsk 2
Tjeljabinsk 2
Magnitogorsk 2
Chkalov 2
Ufa 2
Kujbysjev 2
Uralsk 1
Volzjskij 1
Astrakhan 4
Samarkand 1
Tasjkent 1
Petropavlosvsk 1
Omsk 1
Novosibirsk 1
Kyzyl 1
Irkutsk 1
Nachodka 1
Vladivostok 2



Okay all done hopefully I spelt/typed everything correctly but it should be close enough.