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junassa

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May 10, 2017
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As a refresher, the AI is programmed not to trust the player when it comes to prosecuting the AI's wars. This is why they won't help when you attack their enemies.


Ok, so. This particular problem stems from the fact that the fact that the player is an ally in the war. I would like to emphasize that this is the current implementation.

So, the issue arises from how the War Coordinator decides which War Stance it is in. In most circumstances it does exactly what it needs to do, but the player throws a bit of a complication into this. The War Coordinator chooses the Offensive stance if they outnumber the opposing side, and the Defensive stance if they are being outnumbered. The player(s) are, from the war coordinator's perspective, extremely unreliable allies. The player(s) does what the player(s) wants, and the war coordinator has no way of knowing what your intentions are. Because of this the player's strength is not counted for the army strength on the side they are on, it is extremely pessimistic here. On the other hand, the other side is counting on the player's strength when calculating the strength of the opposing side, because it is pessimistic on its odds and never knows what the other side is up to.

So what we then have is:
Attacking War Coordinator SeesDefending War Coordinator Sees
AI Attacker26102610
AI Defender29412941
Player Attacker1167
This pessimistic look means: the attacker sees 2610 strength on their side and 2941 strength on the defender side; the defender sees 3777 attackers and 2941 defenders.

The attacking war coordinator only see the units it is in control of, so it thinks it is outnumbered and is thus in a defensive stance. The defending war coordinator calculates the full strength of the opposing side, regardless of which opposing war coordinator is in charge of it. So we are now in a situation where both sides are in a defensive war stance, which is why the attacker is holding back in this war.

This behaviour is something we want look into at some point in the future, but I cannot give a timeline to give as to when.

I hope this has clarified it.


Now to address some of the other points in the thread.

1 is correct, the units assigned to the war coordinator on the player's side will follow the player to a self-detrimental level.
2 is by the logic given above not accurate, the AI really does not expect anything from the player allies, for better or worse.

The AI understands what war goals are and what gives war score. The AI will however make a decision for whether they can feasibly (it will try to avoid attrition) reach the provinces that give war score or not and is supposed to begin prioritizing provinces in the direction of the war goal. There is also some prioritization on what's close to the armies, where it will prioritize closer objectives higher than far away provinces. There might be some numbers to tweak in the war stance priorities that can help here, but anything touching AI needs thorough testing before we commit it for an update. We want to avoid making a change and have the result be worse than current behaviour, and this is something we only can test by having the change live for a long time on our development branches.

This was posted almost 3 years ago, and we still have no resolution to this., and no one other than OxyCoon, who's no longer on the team, seems to think it's a problem.

Multiiple people have complained about this for years, and still no fix.

I think this is a horrible situation to leave the player in.
 
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You only have to join their army to solve all isues with AI in war. They only do not trust you if you do not want to join their army.

To test this, just see what they do (in their wars) when they are significantly weaker than their enemy, but combined with your army they can easily win. You'll find that while they may siege with you, they will never attack the enemy army head on.
 
Seems reasonable, I wouldn't trust that other player as well. Still, i see vassal allies follow my armies without me doing anything, and that quite enough for me.

Vassal allies? Are you playing with a mod?

It sounds reasonable except in those situations when both your armies and theirs need to attack the enemy together.
 
I have to correct myself: Since automated armies AI cannot lead wars anymore, even if you join their army. I just had a war with my ally declaring war on his neighbor and he set his army on waiting. He was still waiting after I joined him even with a joined army twice as big as his neighbor.
But I would still argue this problem was solved before they introduced automated armies. They broke something with the new system, it seems.
 
Wait a minute, Oxycoon is no longer on the team? Damn, that's sad to hear. I hope this doesn't also mean the cultural minorities system she and Wokeg worked on a while ago is shelved for good.