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Were the Cybrex removed? They're impossible to spawn without console commands

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jrmoserbaltimore

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Start a game with only Vultaum. You get several precursor planets around you with Vultaum precursor. Same for First League, Irassian, etc..

I tried ONLY Cybrex and 9 games in a row I got no precursor at all. If I try Cybrex and another precursor, I get the other precursor every time.

precursor_5 will show up in the gamestate file, but I can't find any system with precursor_5 in the debugtooltip. Meanwhile precursor_3 or whatever shows up all over the place immediately if I enable that one.

Playing on 4.20.
 
Started a new game with all 7 precursors chosen and wound up with the Cybrex. It may be that choosing les than the suggested 4 makes it wonky?
 
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In the Gamestate file, search for "precursor_cybrex" - any system with that flag has a chance of spawning a Precursor anomaly.

The galaxy generation chops the galaxy into slices of space where certain segments of the galaxy are dedicated to one precursor - so if you have four Precursors, one quadrant of the galaxy is typically only going to have a specific Precursor which won't appear in the other three. Presumably the galaxy gen doesn't really work for numbers less than four, so you end up with large portions of the galaxy just not having any precursors at all.
 
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Rather likely just bad luck (and their heavily flawed implementation of the precursor limitation).

I managed to "find" a single precursor (not cybrex though, but I doubt they have a "special" rule compared to other precursors) when I had only one selected (by luck via wormhole to the other side of the galaxy where there was an unsurveyed area).
I also got Cybrex in a game where I only selected 2 precursors.

As the precursor selection is implemented now, if you want a specific one you are just as before best suited to either use save game editing or a mod.
 
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TSBasilisk said:
Presumably the galaxy gen doesn't really work for numbers less than four, so you end up with large portions of the galaxy just not having any precursors at all.
Click to expand...

For science™ I just made 9 test games with 1, 2... 9 precursors and looked at the save games.
It is a bit different (but also different as I thought myself before).

600 star galaxy.

9 precursors:
775 precursor tags total
84-90 tags per precursor

8 precursors:
749 precursor tags total
86-100 tags per precursor

7 precursors:
695 precursor tags total
98-100 tags per precursor

6 precursors:
600 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

5 precursors:
500 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

4 precursors:
400 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

3 precursors:
300 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

2 precursors:
200 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

1 precursor:
100 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

So, basically, the tags per precursor seem to have upper limit of 100.
This causes the "empty" spaces with fewer precursors.
Will make some more tests with different galaxy sizes.

Edit:

1000 star galaxy, 9 precursors:
900 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

1000 star galaxy, 4 precursors:
400 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

1000 star galaxy, 1 precursor:
100 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

200 star galaxy, 9 precursors:
305 precursor tags total
30-38 tags per precursor

200 star galaxy, 2 precursors:
200 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

200 star galaxy, 1 precursor:
100 precursor tags total
100 tags per precursor

No matter the galaxy size, max tags per precursor is 100.
So, in a 1000 star galaxy you will have empty space even with 9 precursors, while in a 200 star galaxy you will have no holes even with only 2 precursors.

The only anomaly is 305 precursor tags in a 9 precursor 200 star galaxy, which suggests that a system can have multiple precursor tags.
Actually, looking at the game files more closely, I found a system with 3 precursor tags there. I looked at the 600 star, 9 precursors save again and around 33% of all systems with precursors have 2-3 of them. So they seem to be "clumped" a bit.
 
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Psykhes said:
The only anomaly is 305 precursor tags in a 9 precursor 200 star galaxy, which suggests that a system can have multiple precursor tags.
Actually, looking at the game files more closely, I found a system with 3 precursor tags there. I looked at the 600 star, 9 precursors save again and around 33% of all systems with precursors have 2-3 of them. So they seem to be "clumped" a bit.
Click to expand...

This has always been the case. Which is why the event I nodded to choose a specific precursor in single player replaces the tags instead of spawning tags around my starting system.
 
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Psykhes said:
The only anomaly is 305 precursor tags in a 9 precursor 200 star galaxy, which suggests that a system can have multiple precursor tags.
Click to expand...

One time I tried a mod which activated all precursors for the player.

It set all precursor tags on all systems in the galaxy, and that worked correctly for any active precursors.
 
Psykhes said:
No matter the galaxy size, max tags per precursor is 100.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tests, I wonder what is the logic behind this.. if a player wants to have a single precursor in his game he wants that precursor not a 1/4-1/10 chance to getting a precursor at all.

As a sidenote I'd still like to have the precursors better balanced, and maybe give at least some AI empires an event which let's them find other precursor homeworlds, so it's not player only.
 
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Psykhes said:
8 precursors:
750 precursor tags total
86-100 tags per precursor
And interestingly, 1 single tag for the not selected precursor. This will keep that way, a not selected precursor gets a single tag.
Click to expand...
So even if you disable a precursor, if you're especially unlucky you might still get it?
 
Metallichydra said:
So even if you disable a precursor, if you're especially unlucky you might still get it?
Click to expand...

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Haven't really checked where that one was. Might be so "invisible" system. But let me see...

Ah, there is a "<disabled_precursors>" section in the gamesate File. So those disabled ones are not assigned any system.
I just counted all "precursor_" tags in the save file for the total count. The others are at the system info, though.

Edited my original post and remove those tags to make it a bit clearer.
 
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Can confirm, can spawn Cybrex. The weird thing is if I select Vultaum or first League, I always find a precursor almost immediately, they spawn near me. If I select only Cybrex I seem to not get Cybrex ever; if I select Cybrex and one of the first 4, I get the non-Cybrex one. I selected Cybrex and Zroni and got Cybrex immediately.

Even with 100 per precursor, they should end up about 10% of a huge galaxy. Searching around my entire quadrant and finding zero with the precursor_5 tag seems ridiculous.

Maybe I'm choking the map with 3x primitives and such and maximum empires, and it doesn't want to spawn them alongside certain other things (like as an AI empire's homeworld or system cluster).
 
jrmoserbaltimore said:
Can confirm, can spawn Cybrex. The weird thing is if I select Vultaum or first League, I always find a precursor almost immediately, they spawn near me. If I select only Cybrex I seem to not get Cybrex ever; if I select Cybrex and one of the first 4, I get the non-Cybrex one. I selected Cybrex and Zroni and got Cybrex immediately.

Even with 100 per precursor, they should end up about 10% of a huge galaxy. Searching around my entire quadrant and finding zero with the precursor_5 tag seems ridiculous.

Maybe I'm choking the map with 3x primitives and such and maximum empires, and it doesn't want to spawn them alongside certain other things (like as an AI empire's homeworld or system cluster).
Click to expand...
If you have Advanced Empires turned on, try turning it off and try again.
 
TSBasilisk said:
In the Gamestate file, search for "precursor_cybrex" - any system with that flag has a chance of spawning a Precursor anomaly.

The galaxy generation chops the galaxy into slices of space where certain segments of the galaxy are dedicated to one precursor - so if you have four Precursors, one quadrant of the galaxy is typically only going to have a specific Precursor which won't appear in the other three. Presumably the galaxy gen doesn't really work for numbers less than four, so you end up with large portions of the galaxy just not having any precursors at all.
Click to expand...
However, it would be a bit strange that for his other tests which also had only 1 precursor all worked and only the cybrex failed, 9 times. So perhaps there is indeed some weird interaction there, just saying.

This might be worth a bug report imo, since you seem to be able to reproduce it effectively overall several games.
 
i've had real problems with finding the cybrex, but i have found them from time to time. but yes, messing with the number of precursors seems to leave you without a precursor way too often.

i think they need to buff the cooldown on the artifact and curator actions that give precursor hints, as a stopgap measure just in case this happens, while figuring out how to fix this. unfortunately both those actions require finding a single hint first. which makes them useless if you have zero luck at all. maybe they can unlock those actions if you have found none after a set date, or just give you a hint automatically if you haven't found one after a set date, to unlock them for you.
 
Cybrex are in my games and I have no trouble finding them. But I use a mod that seeds systems near my capital with all precursor flags and permits me to catch them all. Sometimes finding all clues takes extensive exploration though as finding all six clues for five precursors within a few jumps of my capital is unlikely, and I might not have spawned anywhere near where galaxy generation puts the flags.
 
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