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Westernes, Arquebuses & Ikko-ikki

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Captain Gars

Captain Gars

Lead AI Programmer
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Oct 4, 2010
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I'd be interested in hearing any general feedback/observations you might have on these topics if and when you come across them.

Ikko-ikkis can spawn after 1480 while westerners and firearms come around somewhere after 1520, usually in the 1530's.
 
Watched a nice ikko stack of about 10000 seige and establish themselves in Tosa right in the heartland of the biggest clan in Japan. They only lasted about 2 years and were pretty much a non event.

While I like the idea are they just meant to sit there or do they become active and try to expand? Or alternatively do they inspire nearby provinces to revolt?
 
Well as a vassal of Shimazu I got a province immediately adjacent to me convert to Ikko-Ikki. There were 20,000 troops in that province and they bordered two clans. Neither my Liege nor the clan next door laid a finger on them until, during a war a decade or so later they incited a revolt in my province and 10,000 rebels popped up. Only then did my liege notice them and rush to my defence. I don't think he ever attack their home province though.
 
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Blxz said:
Watched a nice ikko stack of about 10000 seige and establish themselves in Tosa right in the heartland of the biggest clan in Japan. They only lasted about 2 years and were pretty much a non event.

While I like the idea are they just meant to sit there or do they become active and try to expand? Or alternatively do they inspire nearby provinces to revolt?
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I had a couple of ikko-ikki revolts in my game. They all failed in the end but some lasted for many years and even took a whole kuni.
As for westerners they arrived in 1527 and later I got an event arond 1535 sayin that guns became common so I can build them.
Btw I got an event about an englishmen building me a modern ship as early as 1480, probably a bug.
 
Blxz said:
While I like the idea are they just meant to sit there or do they become active and try to expand?
Click to expand...

They stay in that one kuni, but will build up the defenses there, so the longer you wait to attack them, the harder it is to take the province back. Any improvements they make will be destroyed when you retake the province.

Or alternatively do they inspire nearby provinces to revolt?
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They increase the revolt risk of surrounding provinces, yes.
 
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From the Ikko-Ikki developer diary:

A stronghold will also start to add more troops over time, which means the longer you wait to deal with them, the stronger they will get. The Ikko-ikkis establishing a stronghold also means trouble for neighboring koris, as the Stronghold will try to spread its influence and take political control over the whole kuni (a number of provinces under a daimyo title) by spawning new rebellions around them. So before you laugh too hard about your annoying neighbor getting a visit from 15,000 angry Ikko-ikki rebels, make sure you don't owe any kori in the same kuni... And to make things worse, once western influence has spread to a kori controlled by the Ikko-ikki they will build gun manufactories and start to arm themselves with arquebuses...
Click to expand...

So I guess they will try to expand, at least to grab a whole kuni. Normal rebels increase the revolt risk of nearby provinces so I believe it is the same with Ikko-Ikkis
 
unperson said:
Btw I got an event about an englishmen building me a modern ship as early as 1480, probably a bug.
Click to expand...

Say what...?! An englishman? Building a ship?
 
Captain Gars said:
Say what...?! An englishman? Building a ship?
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02shogun.jpg

:p
 
Shogun indeed. Although its a bit early for an Anjin Miura reference. On a side note, have seen his grave down southern Japan....somewhere, the name of the place escapes me right now. Quite an interesting man.
 
The fact that this game may contain Anjin-san makes me buy it. Must find hard copy on local gamestore NOW.....:D
 
unperson said:
I had a couple of ikko-ikki revolts in my game. They all failed in the end but some lasted for many years and even took a whole kuni.
As for westerners they arrived in 1527 and later I got an event arond 1535 sayin that guns became common so I can build them.
Btw I got an event about an englishmen building me a modern ship as early as 1480, probably a bug.
Click to expand...

Amazing reference!
 
Arquebuses are absolutely DEVASTATING! I was one of the first to field them in battle in my present game, and I believe in the first battle with them against the Clan I was forcibly breaking away from, I took something like 86 losses whilst the opposing force took more than 800. It was magnificent. :D
 
Could Ikko-ikki rebellion strength linked to top countries at the time. In my game Ikko-ikki rebelled in one of my three last provinces, their 10k men was just a speedbump to Hatakeyama over 15k army. They took the castle after quite fast siege too.
 
Blxz said:
Shogun indeed. Although its a bit early for an Anjin Miura reference. On a side note, have seen his grave down southern Japan....somewhere, the name of the place escapes me right now. Quite an interesting man.
Click to expand...

Like a lot of notable "Japanese" :) , William Adams has several graves ranging in spots from Tokyo to Kyushu. Most grave markers associated with famous people are actually more along the lines of memorials-most historians think Adams was actually buried by the street named for him in Edo/Tokyo.

Very cool that he apparently made it into the game-loved Captain Gar's reaction to the news! Kind of makes me wonder what else may be hidden away to stumble across...
 
Tatsunoshi said:
Like a lot of notable "Japanese" :) , William Adams has several graves ranging in spots from Tokyo to Kyushu. Most grave markers associated with famous people are actually more along the lines of memorials-most historians think Adams was actually buried by the street named for him in Edo/Tokyo.

Very cool that he apparently made it into the game-loved Captain Gar's reaction to the news! Kind of makes me wonder what else may be hidden away to stumble across...
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William who? We are talking about John Blackthorne here. :D
 
Hmmmmmmmmm.....Blackthorne, Blackthorne.....gosh, he's not in any of my references! I'll have to consult with Toranaga-sama. :)

Wonder if there's a Yabu in any of the in-game clans on the Izu peninsula? Now THAT'S a character I'd like to play in a backstabbing game of intrigue and diplomacy. In fact, if someone could whip up a mod based on Clavell's Shogun-how cool would that be?

For anyone ambitious enough to try it at some future point, here's the SA Wiki's Character list for the novel and the historical figures they represent.
 
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Tatsunoshi said:
Very cool that he apparently made it into the game-loved Captain Gar's reaction to the news! Kind of makes me wonder what else may be hidden away to stumble across...
Click to expand...

Well I was just a bit surprised that James Clavell apparently beat my Portuguese ships in getting first to Japan...
 
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