What now?

[unmerged(174602)]

So i started a game as Munster. I managed to slowly take over Ireland one piece at a time and am now in control of the whole island and a single province in Wales.

Now the problem is i don't know where to go next...
My options as i see them:
-Scotland (my ally), who is stronger than me
-Sweden (owns 3 provinces in former Scotland)
-England
-Gwynedd(allied with England)

Any suggestions?

 

[jordarkelf]

Sweden - if these are counts, not part of the royal demesne. The vikings suffer from naval attrition to get to you, so you can grab their counties without much problems and then just hold them off until they offer a white peace.

 

[Count of Reval]

Start saving money for creation of a King title, but do not proclaim yourself a King of Ireland yet to build up an additional prestige that you get as a Duke from having count-vassals. (You need prestige for become more persuasive behind negotiation table and for "buying" claims.) Be patient and wait for England or Scotland falling apart in realm duress. Then proclaim yourself a King of Ireland and start taking over their former vassals by diplomacy and war. Create bishoprics to keep your BB as low as possible.

 

[unmerged(174602)]

Start saving money for creation of a King title, but do not proclaim yourself a King of Ireland yet to build up an additional prestige that you get as a Duke from having count-vassals. (You need prestige for become more persuasive behind negotiation table and for "buying" claims.) Be patient and wait for England or Scotland falling apart in realm duress. Then proclaim yourself a King of Ireland and start taking over their former vassals by diplomacy and war. Create bishoprics to keep your BB as low as possible.

Hehe, little late for that. I'm already king of Ireland.
I'll try to be a bit more patient though, how can you tell if a realm is in dures?

 

[iain_a_wilson]

how can you tell if a realm is in dures?

Click on the King and see if he's got a little "realm duress" trait. If he does, HAPPY DAYS

 

[Count of Reval]

I'll try to be a bit more patient though, how can you tell if a realm is in dures?

Ruler has a special trait Realm Duress (two swords crossed on a blue shield). But you can monitor Realm Map as well - look if some realm becomes fragmented (multi-colored).

 

[unmerged(174602)]

Thanks for that, i don't suppose there is some way to "facilitate" realm duress?

 

[TempestDK]

Thanks for that, i don't suppose there is some way to "facilitate" realm duress?

Not in another's realms ... Fairly easy to facilitate in your own realm though

 

[wobbit]

To trigger realm duress you need to get some of the rival king's vassals to rebel. You may also need the king to have certain attributes (if he's got a high intrigiuge (sp?) he may be immune- I'll have to check this though). If vassals start rebelling this has a chance to trigger realm duress. There are a few ways you can lower vassal loyalty and increase their chances of rebellion:

Assasinating the king could do it, but this is pricey and will probaly take multiple attempts (even if you go with the cheesy "kill the spymaster then kill the king" technique). You're likely to get multiple assasination attempts on yourself and your heirs in retaliation. If the king dies, then his vassals take a large loyalty hit. If this is coupled with a child or weak ruler coming to the throne- particularly one with low diplomacy- then odds are the realm will crumble.

Excomunication can also be very effective, but first of all you need to become papal controller through having the highest piety bishop in the world and waiting for the present pope to die (I think this is how it works, it's been a while since I managed it). You then need the pope to have a higher prestiege than the piety of the ruler you want to excomunicate (again IIRC). This can require the investment of a lot of resources and can still be very hit and miss as to whether your pope will be able to excomunicate the king anyway. If the king is particularly pious you can pretty much forget it.

Being friends with the king's vassals and an enemy of the king himself is another possibility. If you are in this situation, then the vassals who are your friends can get events that may make them enemies of the king, lowering their loyalty, making them more likely to rebel and cause realm duress. This is also very hit and miss as you don't have much control over who your friends are. Just keep an eye out for events that make you friends with any handy vassals. Marrying into their families may also help with this.

The final way is probably the most effective: just wait. Eventually the king will die. Or be excommunicated or declared heretic. Or suffer a series of events that lower his ability to rule or his vassals loyalty. It's a long game and this WILL happen repeatedly to the larger kingdoms. Just try to make sure that when it does happen you're in a position to steal his former vassals or even take a shot at the kingdom itself. Try to keep your own realm stable and your armies at full strength. And keep your badboy down so you can claim and seize titles without facing massive rebellion yourself.

Hope some of this helps.

 

[unmerged(174602)]

Thanks for the pointers Wobbit, those will be quite useful.....in a new game that is because mine just crashed, if i try to reload (different saves) it crashes at the same place again.

*sigh* I was just getting into this game too. Oh well, i can always try england now

 

[Yakman]

becoming papal controller (in 1.05 anyways) lets you excommunicate your (catholic) enemies, which is a surefire way to weaken them.

you do this by:

a) being the ruler with the highest piety when you load a savegame
b) when the current pope dies, have the highest piety bishop as your vassal or your vassal's vassal. he becomes pope, and you become papal controller (and you get his lands back if he is your direct vassal)

being papal controller is a two-edged sword though. new bishops are appointed out of your court--your unmarried, unpositioned men start vanishing--and this can lead to severe court depopulation in extreme circumstances. At one point in my current game my court went from nearly 50 people to 6 in a decade--and 5 of them were Moslems, which meant that I had to keep killing them to make the pope happy.

 

[wobbit]

Stupid crashing, it's never fun.

Anyhoo, re very competent kings being immune to realm duress:

a ruler with 12+ diplomacy or a ruler with a chancellor with 15+ diplomacy will never get realm duress

from this thread:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448336&page=2

So if your target king is a diplomatic genius, or has one working for him, then he wont get realm duress. Of course, there are plenty of events and traits that can lower these scores so keep an eye on them. And kings don't have to get duress to have their collapse- it just makes it more likely.

If you're restarting and want a game with plenty of opportunities for nabbing lands off rebelious dukes, try one of the duchies on either side of the German-French border. Both kingdoms tend to fragment early on so you can gain a lot of territory. It's also a region with a lot of high revenue provinces in- especially in Flanders. It can be tricky to get a king title is the only thing, as the local ones are already taken.

 

[unmerged(174602)]

Stupid crashing, it's never fun.

Anyhoo, re very competent kings being immune to realm duress:

a ruler with 12+ diplomacy or a ruler with a chancellor with 15+ diplomacy will never get realm duress

from this thread:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?t=448336&page=2

So if your target king is a diplomatic genius, or has one working for him, then he wont get realm duress. Of course, there are plenty of events and traits that can lower these scores so keep an eye on them. And kings don't have to get duress to have their collapse- it just makes it more likely.

If you're restarting and want a game with plenty of opportunities for nabbing lands off rebelious dukes, try one of the duchies on either side of the German-French border. Both kingdoms tend to fragment early on so you can gain a lot of territory. It's also a region with a lot of high revenue provinces in- especially in Flanders. It can be tricky to get a king title is the only thing, as the local ones are already taken.

Well since i'm Flemisch , any pointers for an overall strategy?

 

[wobbit]

I had a fun game as Flanders a while ago. The massive income from your provinces gives you a lot of options- you don't have to spend nearly as long hoarding gold to build improvements or to go to war as you do when you're based in Ireland. You can't really use this cash to go on the rampage at the start- everyone in the neighborhood belongs to France, Germany or England so if you declare war off the bat then you'll end up in a massive conflict. Instead, I used the cash to build improements and keep the duchy stable. Your son and heir at the start is the count of Brabant so you can actually expand without doing anything.

When nearby counts and dukes start declaring independence then it's time to think about expanding by force. Keep an eye out especially for counts or small duchies that have broken free peacefully, you can conquer these without worrying too much about their king turning up before you. This often wont be a problem, as you'll generally be closer than the king and they will typically be facing several rebellions at a time.

Another thing to look out for is the income or the province you're taking. High is good whether it's for you (more money) or a vassal (more free troops). There are a lot of wealthy provinces around you at the start- particularly along the west bank of the Rhine, but also down towards Paris, in Normandy and along the East coast of England- so you should have plenty of opportunity to enrich yourself. See this map for the relative wealth of the provinces in the game:

http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk117/The_Real_Slinky/ckbasetaxmapnd2.jpg

Watch out if your lands touch the personal lands of your king. Paris isn't far from you so you're quite likely to attract the attention of the French king sooner or later. If you can do it peacefully don't be afraid to declare independence and swear fealty to another king. England is the obvious choice, but bear in mind that the heir to the English throne is the duke of Normandy so you may find yourself too close for comfort to this king as well. Germany should be safer, but keep an eye on the situation in your game. It's generally safer to be someones vassal until you're big enough to look after yourself.

If you've done all this successfully you should end up with a large and wealthy territory between France and Germany, possibly with enclaves in England or Normandy. From here you've got various choices. You could continue expanding into rich provinces of rebellious dukes and counts and move into Italy. You could try for one of the crowns of Germany, France or England- Germany will probably be easiest, but it's up to you and the situation you find yourself in. Usurping the crown of Burgundy is another option. You could go on crusade- you'll have the cash to make an expedition to the holy land or the Baltic is nearby and packed with pagans. Or you could just continue to blob into the three kingdoms surrounding you, switching your allegiance as you need/want to until you tower over your so called king.

Asside from that all the usual stuff about trying to get inheritance and making sure you have competent successors applies. Have fun!