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Abirami aka Pete

Second Lieutenant
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Dec 25, 2019
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You've probably heard that a remastered version of Rome Total War is coming up. This was the first strategy game I ever played, so I spent some time watching YT videos about its features. Of course, it was natural to compare it with Imperator. The result? I think I love I:R even more now.

I already thought that, despite some flaws/room for improvement, I:R 1.5 was one of the best games I ever played, and it only got better with 2.0. But if you compare it with Rome TW (I'm just gonna ignore Rome II, I'm still offended at how hideous that map looked), the difference in depth and breath of game mechanics is just striking.

Rome TW has no culture, no religion, no social classes [no pops], no politics, no ability to shape the map by founding cities, no wonders, a fixed road network that you cannot design, no military traditions, etc. The game fundamentally asks you to 1) raise armies and conquer; 2) upgrade city buildings to access new/better units. I still liked it a lot, because of the time frame and the battles/cities, but I could never go back and play it--it would feel way too shallow.

Thus, I'm so grateful that we have I:R to build captivating and ever different stories in ancient times! This comparison (and you could do the same with other chapters of the TW saga) really highlights all that good that there is in I:R.

As a side note, there are a few things that I:R could draw inspiration from TW: e.g. a simulated trade network that links close regions and doesn't differentiate so strongly between internal and external trade (I wouldn't replicate the same thing, but despite its simplicity Rome TW's trade feels much more reasonable than I:R); also, city buildings felt a bit more interesting in Rome TW, especially because there is a 3d model that you can explore. Maybe adding small buildings and walls to the map (somewhat like Civ 5) may partially compensate for this. It would surely give some extra gratification for those of us that like civic development. But apart from these things, there is really little else that I:R could learn from the TW titles.
 
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You've probably heard that a remastered version of Rome Total War is coming up. This was the first strategy game I ever played, so I spent some time watching YT videos about its features. Of course, it was natural to compare it with Imperator. The result? I think I love I:R even more now.

I already thought that, despite some flaws/room for improvement, I:R 1.5 was one of the best games I ever played, and it only got better with 2.0. But if you compare it with Rome TW (I'm just gonna ignore Rome II, I'm still offended at how hideous that map looked), the difference in depth and breath of game mechanics is just striking.

Rome TW has no culture, no religion, no social classes [no pops], no politics, no ability to shape the map by founding cities, no wonders, a fixed road network that you cannot design, no military traditions, etc. The game fundamentally asks you to 1) raise armies and conquer; 2) upgrade city buildings to access new/better units. I still liked it a lot, because of the time frame and the battles/cities, but I could never go back and play it--it would feel way too shallow.

Thus, I'm so grateful that we have I:R to build captivating and ever different stories in ancient times! This comparison (and you could do the same with other chapters of the TW saga) really highlights all that good that there is in I:R.

As a side note, there are a few things that I:R could draw inspiration from TW: e.g. a simulated trade network that links close regions and doesn't differentiate so strongly between internal and external trade (I wouldn't replicate the same thing, but despite its simplicity Rome TW's trade feels much more reasonable than I:R); also, city buildings felt a bit more interesting in Rome TW, especially because there is a 3d model that you can explore. Maybe adding small buildings and walls to the map (somewhat like Civ 5) may partially compensate for this. It would surely give some extra gratification for those of us that like civic development. But apart from these things, there is really little else that I:R could learn from the TW titles.

I think one of the strength in the current patch are the processes in the background. I would love to see a trade goods rework in this idrection. When pops would consume tradegoods and we got traderoutes without direct control. Right now we have the weird situation in which you move pops away from the food producing territories.

I dont expect a market like in victoria, but something in such direction. Less national wide bonuses. More need to appease the growing population by importing more of the tradegoods. When i have 300 patrician in Rome at some point, i probably need far more cloth to appease them. Right now the overproduction of the cloth in Rome is just for the export.
 
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I mean i agree (kinda why i'm so active on these forums) but they are two very different games.

TW is wanting to be a commander/general leding armies with barebones anything else. Meanwhile paradox cuts the direct battles for much deeper management and feeling more like a ruler.
 
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I mean i agree (kinda why i'm so active on these forums) but they are two very different games.

TW is wanting to be a commander/general leding armies with barebones anything else. Meanwhile paradox cuts the direct battles for much deeper management and feeling more like a ruler.

I still like total war games. Just think they can have some more strategic depth too. Imperator Rome is more interesting for me, when i don't want to see shinny battles.
 
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I think one of the strength in the current patch are the processes in the background. I would love to see a trade goods rework in this idrection. When pops would consume tradegoods and we got traderoutes without direct control. Right now we have the weird situation in which you move pops away from the food producing territories.

I dont expect a market like in victoria, but something in such direction. Less national wide bonuses. More need to appease the growing population by importing more of the tradegoods. When i have 300 patrician in Rome at some point, i probably need far more cloth to appease them. Right now the overproduction of the cloth in Rome is just for the export.

fully agree! And for @Jiben ’s point, I agree that for I:R trade we cannot have something fully independent of the player. But there’s ample room for a middle ground: Eg the starting point could be as in Rome TW, but then the players can influence the volume and profitability of trade with buildings, tech and you could add diplomacy too, like blockading a country or banning exports, while trade agreements increase profit/volume between two nations. I think that you would actually give trade more significance it wasn’t simply “import a couple of nice goods to keep people happy/reap a capital bonus”.
 
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I agree completely. I got really excited thinking that they had done a full remaster, bringing the map and graphics in line with 2021 TW standards. Then I saw the gameplay and immediately appreciated the complexity of I:R. Having started on Rome TW it's nice to look back to the simpler times where I started, and the evolution to paradox games now that my mind is much more developed. I:R has really been scratching my strategy itch since 2.0
 
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Didn't someone create a mod for interoperability between CK3 and Bannerlords?

Imagine if one could do the same with TW:s tactical battle engine.
 
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Didn't someone create a mod for interoperability between CK3 and Bannerlords?

Imagine if one could do the same with TW:s tactical battle engine.
I actually had daydreams about the "perfect" GSG with Paradox and TW combined...
 
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This was my impression on seeing the "features." So UNimpressive. Which has been everything from CA lately - all the 3K DLCs, the Troy Saga. All of it is just meh, what's the point?

And I'm going to double upvote the importance of the map. I almost literally can't play several of those old games because the map just looks like crap (take a look at Aggressors Rome UGH). Even CK3 map is just barely keeping me interested (although the snow is a nice touch). This is how much I love the IR map.
 
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Although I am a total war fan and played all their historic games for thousands of hours (but lost faith in them as they no longer put out historical games that are worthwhile), I will not get the remastered version. For the reasons mentioned above it is too shallow.

R:TW2 with DeI mod is awesome though, for military/action oriented players that don't care much about cultural depth I would recommend that easily over Imperator. Sure it has its quirks with some lingering gameengine issues but it feels alot more streamlined than Imperator at least for me (probably as it is more dumbed-down) and I feel I have more control on what is happening for some reason in spite of the zillion options you have in Imperator to influence things. Weird, really.
But I have great faith in the Imperator developers and in the devotion of the fanbase to get more streamlined UI and more action, hate and military depth into Imperator :). It is really strange to me with all the cultural modelling in Imperator how well these cultures can co-exist without the historical hate, aversion and aggression in the game (I always get trade offers from the enemy immediately after I end a war, cmon really?.). I feel something is amiss here, more aversion and barbarian invasions please and less kumbaya :) Anyway that is a different topic.

R:TW Attila is possibly the best overall TW game with its dark doomy feeling but is also one of the worst optimised games ever performance-wise so beware if you try it out. And not very accurate historically, Vikings and huns have onagers etc. One of the few games covering the late roman era, though.

I would say if you want to try these TW games, only do it if you can find them super cheap as they are old and even the mods cannot fix some annoying issues with the gameengine/AI. And always use mods, don't bother with the vanilla versions. Simply pick one of the most popular mods e.g. Radious or DeI (DeI i.e. Divide et Impera I would say has the edge).
 
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TW has battles, but... I have to admit I prefer Paradox style when it comes to battles. I remember how many times I was annoyed I have to spend another 20 minutes fighting the battle manually for the fifth time in two turns just because autoresolving sucked and would never win battles I was winning. In I:R (and other PX games) we have huge battles without tedious micromanaging it and spending a lot of time on the battle screen.

TW battles are fun, but in limited amount. Too much of them and they become annoying, at least to me.

Of course I agree with everything else - the complexity of PX games is amazing, the feature I:R already have - impressing.
 
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TW games are Tactical Battle simulators with a simple strategy game to guide the story; PDX games are GSGs. I used to think mixing the two would be great, but now I feel they'd fundamentally undermine the enjoyability of each side. It's a big reason why I just sigh when I see so much focus on the battle system of IR - if you make it matter too much it will always undermine the management side (as you can overcome with tactics) that is supposed to be the core.
 
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Although I am a total war fan and played all their historic games for thousands of hours (but lost faith in them as they no longer put out historical games that are worthwhile), I will not get the remastered version. For the reasons mentioned above it is too shallow.
TW Rome Remastered is a remaster not a remake, so it's just Rome TW from the past with better compatibility, graphics and some QOL. The only missing improvement is AI apparently but it is the norm for historical strategy games especially that you don't fix the AI. The real goal of CA with this release is having a big, active mod community to ramp up the game which has full modding support already. Maybe after getting those mods you and I would get this game too along with many others. But I'd get this game at a 75% discount at best.
R:TW Attila is possibly the best overall TW game with its dark doomy feeling but is also one of the worst optimised games ever performance-wise so beware if you try it out. And not very accurate historically, Vikings and huns have onagers etc. One of the few games covering the late roman era, though.
Huns having onagers always ignited this historical accuracy controversy, because they are barbarians and they can't have siege units :) It's wrong though. Also, Vikings are not in this game, maybe you are mixing it up with a mod :)
 
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TW Rome Remastered is a remaster not a remake, so it's just Rome TW from the past with better compatibility, graphics and some QOL. The only missing improvement is AI apparently but it is the norm for historical strategy games especially that you don't fix the AI. The real goal of CA with this release is having a big, active mod community to ramp up the game which has full modding support already. Maybe after getting those mods you and I would get this game too along with many others. But I'd get this game at a 75% discount at best.

Huns having onagers always ignited this historical accuracy controversy, because they are barbarians and they can't have siege units :) It's wrong though. Also, Vikings are not in this game, maybe you are mixing it up with a mod :)
In Attila they do. Thats what he talking about.
 
TW games are Tactical Battle simulators with a simple strategy game to guide the story; PDX games are GSGs. I used to think mixing the two would be great, but now I feel they'd fundamentally undermine the enjoyability of each side. It's a big reason why I just sigh when I see so much focus on the battle system of IR - if you make it matter too much it will always undermine the management side (as you can overcome with tactics) that is supposed to be the core.

Indeed. I think it would be too ambitious to try and combine them both with any hopes of quality.
 
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