When is it a good idea to explore other worlds?

[AFnord]

I've been playing quite a bit of Warlock as of late, both in single & multi-player. One thing that has me wondering though is the strategic value of exploring the other worlds. While some valuable resources are far more common in those, they have usually required too much resources to get. Usually my games look like this:
Early game: Everything is about expansion. Military might is used to take over neutral cities and clear away monsters that can get in the way of settlers.
Mid game: Still trying to expand. Military might used to keep rivals away.
End game: Extermination of rivals.

While mid-game feels like the best time to explore these worlds, I usually don't spend enough time in mid game, it usually goes pretty swiftly from "expand" to "exterminate"

 

[UncleJJ]

Well it really depends on which victory condition you go for. If you always go for elimination of rivals then, as you've found, you don't need to venture into the other worlds as by the time you're strong enough to tackle the monsters there you are strong enough to take out a rival or two. Capturing rival cities already partly developed is just as valuable as the gains made by settling in other worlds, so it would largely be a distraction. But frankly I get bored always going for this the most obvious victory condition which is also the easiest as the AI can't defend itself against a few good temple units or Elites.

If you want to win by one of the other paths to victory then the other worlds provide a challenge and a chance to build up the experience of your better troops through more battles. Better quality troops will make dealing with an avatar easier. To win the Holy grounds type of victory you will probably have to conquer at least some other worlds (depending on how many you have in the game) in order to get enough for the 50% requirement. If going for the Spell of Mastery victory then many of the monster loots in other worlds have spells as rewards so that will help reduce the number of spells you're required to research and also provides a load of free mana towards the 5000 (IIRC) needed to cast the spell.

So they are probably a distraction for a simple conquest victory but are useful for the other 3 types of victory. The choice is yours.

JJ

 

[AFnord]

Ah, good point about the spells. I never really thought much about that, but it would make getting the Unit spell a lot easier. I'll try to go for that victory next time I play (I always seem to default back to the win by conquest victory condition in 4X games, even though I almost always try to remain peaceful during most of the early game).

 

[unmerged(529415)]

The matter is, you dont have to conquer alternativ worlds at all.
My exploration is too rush for settlering. It means I use to clear the mobs on the terrain too quickly. Settlers take more time. So I stop time to time to kill the mobs and waiting for settlers and archers who protect new cities. In that time I use to switch to other worlds just to spend a time with my heroes with actions.

 

[unmerged(512844)]

I really wish you had to,

The easiest way to do that is a DLC race that would start in one of the alternativ world), this alternativ world would be "different" than the current one.
If I could mod it, I would do

- a lunar landscape with an alien race starting there (50's style, think of the big brains of "mars attack" or the tripods of "war of the worlds" and some good old robots). The gate could be one "landed" space saucer in our world, with additional ones popping up other time.

- or a cthullu type race, in underwater caves, the gate to the normal world would be underwater so the race would expend underwater until it gets a "air breathing spell". Of course a "water breathing spell" would be needed to go and get them.

 

[unmerged(529415)]

I really wish you had to,

The easiest way to do that is a DLC race that would start in one of the alternativ world).

The easiest way will be to alload for NPC to ground cities in the other world.

Currently is the settlering in normal world the only important thing.

 

[unmerged(81995)]

Well it really depends on which victory condition you go for. If you always go for elimination of rivals then, as you've found, you don't need to venture into the other worlds as by the time you're strong enough to tackle the monsters there you are strong enough to take out a rival or two.

Not entirely true. You may - if you are very careful and have good scouts (>= sight 3) - venture into portals with just 2-3 Elven bowmasters and a couple of "ordinary" units. Could be as early as turn 45 - at which time you´re unlikely to be ready for another capital.

Regards,
Thorsten

 

[unmerged(529415)]

Not entirely true. You may - if you are very careful and have good scouts (>= sight 3) - venture into portals with just 2-3 Elven bowmasters and a couple of "ordinary" units. Could be as early as turn 45 - at which time you´re unlikely to be ready for another capital.

Regards,
Thorsten

I agree. I had a game already I went into portal with only 1 green flying mouse with sight +1 in very early game, like turn 15-20. there were only couple of the low units, like the undead mob units inside close to entrance and dragons and elementas are just at holy grounds and at the dragon eggs.

So my scout was able to rich some mighty items and lot of gold and mana wich are very usefull at the beginning. It was killed finally, but the items done the game.

Another time I had a game with a portal just close to my start location wotout guard at entrance. I went inside with just a caster hero I had from the beginning and 3 simpel archers and I was able to clear half of this other world and ground my cities inside and defend them seccessfully. I was able to bild a elven temple of Lunord inside very early and with souls of darkness conquered very simpel the whole underground.

Thanks to lot of battles inside my units got lot of XP and bekame very strong in the midgame.

The matter is, due to I was concentrated for underground I lost the control over terrain upstairs, so KI was able to build cities at good positions I were able to get if I didnt gone into portal so early. But it was a nice game anyway.

 

[AFnord]

I really wish you had to,

The easiest way to do that is a DLC race that would start in one of the alternativ world), this alternativ world would be "different" than the current one.
If I could mod it, I would do

One of the risks of having a DLC-race that inhabits another world is that you would effectively have a race that would be able to expand to cover the whole alternative world, without having to worry about rivaling warlocks, unless you give a strong incentive for others to take the risk early on to step into random portals.

Not entirely true. You may - if you are very careful and have good scouts (>= sight 3) - venture into portals with just 2-3 Elven bowmasters and a couple of "ordinary" units. Could be as early as turn 45 - at which time you´re unlikely to be ready for another capital.

Regards,
Thorsten

But will it really be worth it? Would the resources spent on such expedition not be better spent on furthering your goals in Ardania? I'm genuinely curious, because every time I've sent an expedition down into another world, I've just not been able to shake the feeling that I'm effectively not using my resources in an any way near optimal way. That is not a huge issue in singleplayer (though it is obviously an issue), but in multiplayer you need to be at your best, and not waste things.

 

[Das123]

If you get in early enough not many monsters will have spawned. Like Hasbulat, I've conquered a whole world with a single green bat with invisibility cast on it. It uncovered some really cool units in the loot and with more invisibility on them they started in a corner and wiped out everything on the map.

 

[unmerged(81995)]

But will it really be worth it? Would the resources spent on such expedition not be better spent on furthering your goals in Ardania?

Never played multiplayer and can answer nevertheless: Prolly no. Except you are caught on an island with limited space, the beaches of landmasses to be reached via ships are guarded and you have a portal nearby.

That said it certainly is an advantage in any environment to ha a full alternate world for yourself (appr. 12 to 16 cities worth building) with guaranteed access to all special resources, some holy grounds, a lot of high value artefacts, often one high tier lord and no threats except the random spawns. And given the right circumstances this can be acheived prettry early (turn 75).

My best guess is that an alternate world is the more valuable the tighter uncontested expansion space is on the main world. But the critics are probably right - if you really focus on the main world and know what you do the units fighting in the alternate world (hard to do below 5 to 6 minimum) could do more on the surface.
In single player an alternate world can add a lot of fun and some tense moments though . To go in with fully perked units (like some Wolf of Helia) after e.g. turn 150 though is a pointless mass slaughter.

Before I forget: letting an AI start in an alternate world seems pointless to me. Given the clearly visible difficulties the AI has clearing some monster filled corners or holy grounds in the main world I doubt an AI can effectively counter the devs newbie trick to group some dragon lairs/holy grounds/elemental spawns together. You would in turn 100 probably see 3 to 5 cities, a lot of village rubbles and a defensive minded AI player having acheived nothing and going nowhere.

Regards,
Thorsten

 

[unmerged(512844)]

One of the risks of having a DLC-race that inhabits another world is that you would effectively have a race that would be able to expand to cover the whole alternative world, without having to worry about rivaling warlocks, unless you give a strong incentive for others to take the risk early on to step into random portals.

This is the idea. So you will have to scout and go for it. Etienne

 

[AFnord]

If you get in early enough not many monsters will have spawned. Like Hasbulat, I've conquered a whole world with a single green bat with invisibility cast on it. It uncovered some really cool units in the loot and with more invisibility on them they started in a corner and wiped out everything on the map.

That is an interesting idea, I'll have to try that!

That said it certainly is an advantage in any environment to ha a full alternate world for yourself (appr. 12 to 16 cities worth building) with guaranteed access to all special resources, some holy grounds, a lot of high value artefacts, often one high tier lord and no threats except the random spawns. And given the right circumstances this can be acheived prettry early (turn 75).

This actually sounds like one of the best reasons to explore these worlds. You will usually find gems & adamantium in them, and having those somewhere where it is unlikely that another player will try to snag them from you sounds quite appealing.