Where are all the pikemen?

[Prince Michael]

Simple question: why the standard castles - whether they are Stormlander etc., Dornish, Yi Ti or whatever - don't give any pikemen/spearmen? Of course you can build standard Barracks chain buildings but I find improving your holdings is bit of waste (I mean, if your base castle gives you, say, 6500 troops, why would you build Barracks which give you some 100 HI and 45 P or something like that).


I find it quite odd, since the spear has always been the weapon of choice for the commoner infantry. Even the Dornish - whose nobles preferred to fight with spear rather than with sword or lance - don't have any Pikemen (which stands both for spearmen and pikemen). The lack of pikemen takes away many combat tactics.

Perhaps the lack of them don't matter much and I'm just craving for flavour...

 

[Prince Michael]

Any statement by the devs? It would just be nice to hear the reasoning behind this decision, I might like it and be happy.

 

[EmperorTojo]

Some special building to give a bonus to spearmen, especially to Dorne, could be cool.

 

[kvk]

Didn't they replace pikemen with slaves? or am I completely wrong?

 

[SovereignGrave]

Didn't they replace pikemen with slaves? or am I completely wrong?

I think slaves just count as light infantry.

 

[Prince Michael]

Spear is totally alien technology in Westeros, it seems. And in Essos, for that part.

 

[unmerged(229635)]

Only way to get pikemen currently is to hire Dornish mercenaries.

 

[Prince Michael]

Any idea why? This is very obvious but I'd like to hear the reasoning behind the decision.

 

[knuckey]

I dont think there was ever a concious decision to exclude pikemen, it is just something that hasnt ever really been looked at. But I agree, at least the Dornish should use pikemen in their levies.

 

[EmperorTojo]

I do not think it would be a difficult modification to anyone who desired to do it personally to their mod. Although I am not sure which files are responsible for this.

 

[Prince Michael]

I just think the basic castles should include Pikemen, in addition to the "normal" LI, HI, A, LC and HC, in appropriate proportion. The proportion in Dornish castles should be greater, and possibly some Essos republics. Pikes and spears have always been the main weapons of city militia in our world, I don't think Essos republics (and Westerosi cities for that matter) are much different in this matter. Heck, even the most badass infantry in the lore, the Unsullied are clearly Pikemen, both in their gear and fighting tactics/fashion.

 

[crukin]

Pikemen are not the same as spearmen.

It's natural to assume spears are being used by all the other troop types, in particular the light infantry. There's definitely some cultures who should have a lot of pikemen though, for example the unsullied are clearly fighting as pikemen.

 

[Aerrae]

Pikemen are not the same as spearmen.

It's natural to assume spears are being used by all the other troop types, in particular the light infantry. There's definitely some cultures who should have a lot of pikemen though, for example the unsullied are clearly fighting as pikemen.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Prince Michael]

Pikemen are not the same as spearmen.

It's natural to assume spears are being used by all the other troop types, in particular the light infantry. There's definitely some cultures who should have a lot of pikemen though, for example the unsullied are clearly fighting as pikemen.

No, they are not, but in the game they are the same.

You can see that Paradox have meant that Pikemen cover the both. In various Unit Model Packs, Pikemen are actually spearmen, fighting with spear and shield (Celtic, Norse, African units come to mind first, possibly Arab, Byzantine and Russian ones, too), which proves it. In some skins (Frankish) they are, well, pikemen. Combat tactics like Stand Fast, Slow Advance, Schiltrom etc. are applicable to both actual pikemen and spearmen alike. If the vanilla game would cover the Antiquity, Pikemen (in the game) would cover hoplites, phalanx, too.

Light Infantry and Heavy Infantry have their own distinct tactics and features in combat, which do not fit well for spearmen.