I am playing as Russia in the GC or IGC (don't know, don't care) and I keep hearing on this board to conquer Sibir and Siberia. What are they (counties, countries?) and where are they.
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The area of Siberia is essentially the barren wastelands, swamps, taiga, and tundra which separate European Russia from Asian Russia. Sibir is a country in Siberia. Notice the cool coloring. Sibir is the black icon w. the falchion, right to the east of Astrakhan. Most countries start out not knowing/caring where Sibir is. Sibiria in the game is a line of provinces surrounded by permanent limbo around the area USSR eventually builds trans-siberian railroad.
"Siber" is the name of a country to the east of Astrakhan (they aren't on your initial map). "Siberia" is the name for a huge mass of provinces in between Siber and the Pacific that can be explored and colonized.
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Sibir is NOT to the East of Kazan. You must actually conquer Kazan, then the Golden Horde, then two provinces of Astrakhan before you have a border with Sibir.
Even then, you will need a Conquistador to "discover" Sibir. The earliest one is Stroganov who arrives in 1560.
Once you conquer Sibir, the east opens up for colonization. There are no powers to contend with until you find China, far to the east, then South. Everything in between (several dozen provinces) is yours for the taking. So of course, Sibir is a critical conquest for Russia.
Even then, you will need a Conquistador to "discover" Sibir. The earliest one is Stroganov who arrives in 1560.
Once you conquer Sibir, the east opens up for colonization. There are no powers to contend with until you find China, far to the east, then South. Everything in between (several dozen provinces) is yours for the taking. So of course, Sibir is a critical conquest for Russia.
If you capture the Astrakhan capitol, the Sibir capitol should show up on the map, then capture the Sibir capitol and you'll see the rest of the country.
Even then, you will need a Conquistador to "discover" Sibir. The earliest one is Stroganov who arrives in 1560.
Taking Astrakhans capital gives the maps to the to most westward Sibir provinces (including Sibirs capital). Taking Sibirs capital obviously gives the rest in Sibir and a few more =)
Taking Astrakhans capital gives the maps to the to most westward Sibir provinces (including Sibirs capital). Taking Sibirs capital obviously gives the rest in Sibir and a few more =)
Don't even dare to post the correct answer before me again or I'll eat you for breakfast
Originally posted by Huszics
Obviously Kazan = Astrakhan ...
This is rather incorrect historically, of course, as the real Khanate of Sibir was indeed east-northeast of Kazan
Originally posted by Solmyr
This is rather incorrect historically, of course, as the real Khanate of Sibir was indeed east-northeast of Kazan
Yes, it´s quite weird. They made that area PTI and nevertheless threw them Sibirians in. We have to live with it.
I don´t know whether the Sibirian Khanate reached that far to the South to "outrun" PTI. Interestingly, they tried to conquer Astrachan in 4191/92 (Mamuk and Ibak). So they at least roamed that far.
Hartmann
Originally posted by Hartmann
Interestingly, they tried to conquer Astrachan in 4191/92 (Mamuk and Ibak). So they at least roamed that far.
Would that be Stardate 4191?
No no, he's obviously made a typo. Clearly it is 1941 and that was their contribution to WWII
Looking at a map of the area at the time, I get the impression that a lot of the territory that belongs to the Khanates (Kazan, Golden Horde, Astrakhan, Crimea, Sibir) didn't really belong to anyone. Maybe these Khanates should be smaller with some unclaimed territories inbetween (with lots of natives to make up for the population loss). That would slow down Russian expansion which might make sense since Kazan and Astrakhan held out until the 1550s and Sibir until the 1580s.
Of course, any map of the time is more or less an approximation and allowing colonization could result in some strange results (Spain in Siberia anyone?).
Of course, any map of the time is more or less an approximation and allowing colonization could result in some strange results (Spain in Siberia anyone?).
Exactly. That´s why for the IGC I dismissed the "going native" option for neutral, unclaimed or disputed European territories quite early. My trials resulted always in an "Eeeek!". What we would need for this would be a second form of neutral territory, i.e. one that would have a fortress and could be conquered instead of colonized.
Hartmann
Just had a wierd idea:
What about trying to add it as territory owned by PIR or REB ? =)
Might just work without messing anything up, if we're lucky.
Originally posted by driedcow
Yes, that's cool. The leader of the Khanates could be called Johny Reb!
Or in translation: Ivan Reb