Why this game failed, and hurt Paradox's reputation.

[unmerged(139034)]

When making a sequel to a video game, it is the responsibility of the developer and the publisher to ensure that the Sequel improves on the original, expanding content, introducing new units and characters, introducing new maps, updating the graphics engine and sound engine, and introducing new features not present in the original (all of which are included in 'expanding content' for those posters who responded to this statement, and not all of which are required of course). At no point should the developer ever REMOVE core gameplay elements and completely CHANGE THE TYPE OF GAME, nor should a publisher ever allow this on a game with their name attached to it. That should be reserved for SPIN OFFS... Not Sequels.

Paradox you failed big with Majesty 2, you betrayed the fans of the Majesty series and you have failed to make it right. Majesty is supposed to be a Fantasy Kingdom SIM, do you know what's wrong here? Do you know why so many fans hated this? Do you know why this is an utter fail and most people won't even remember it a year from now? Because all of the SIM was stripped out, this game doesn't deserve to even be called a Majesty game!

Passive indirect control of Heroes is nothing new, a lot of companies have done it in a lot of games a lot better than in Majesty 2! Heroes are mindless bots that constantly fight endless waves of monsters, all this game really amounts to is gathering gold, hiring units, and destroying lairs before you're swallowed in an endless tide of boring pathetic mindless animatronic monsters that don't even wander around the map. You screwed up bad, fans gave you feedback and suggestions on how to make this game a Majesty game, and you chose to ignore them, now you've tarnished your reputation beyond redemption in my eyes and the eyes of many other Majesty fans, who might I add were a big marketing demographic for the types of games you make. I held out and defended you guys when many others were writing this very letter, now I'm writing it, you've lost yet another fan and customer.

 

[WaltherModel]

+1. Its what pretty much every fan of the original Majesty has been saying, for a long time. I lost alot of respect for pdox too, and its a shame, because its a company that I respected for a long time with the quality of their work, and moreover the ability to listen to customer feedback. I have made my points in various posts, so I will stick to agreeing with what you said, just reinforcing the idea that, here, they ignored the feedback from the community, and tried to turn it into something very generic and milk cash out of it, which I found very discouraging, there are SOOO many video game companies out there, that put a game out there, then don't give a damn, try to milk it for all the $$ it can, and then move on. The Majesty series was raped just like so many other games, and its a damn shame.

 

[Alfryd]

...Ho-kay then! I can see we have some strong feelings on the subject.

I can't exactly disagree, but at this point, (if I might mix metaphors,) it kinda feels like kicking the dead horse when it's already down. As I've said in the past, Maj2 isn't an awful game, it's just not a great one, and it did improve on the original in a couple of respects- user interface, economy, class balance, and the like. I get the impression that this wasn't so much deliberate indifference or a cynical cash-milking exercise on the part of Paradox so much as a series of miscalculations.

 

[unmerged(203067)]

kicking dead horses, as alfryd said. For me Maj2 is a GREAT game, despite everything wich should have been there and it isn´t.

 

[Kanaric]

I disagree with the original poster on a few things.

A sequel does not need to improve on an original game at all. If its an RPG it just needs a new story, a RTS a new campaign, etc.

However he is right for RTS games in terms of why buy the game if there are no new units? Gameplay can remain the same. In fact if gameplay changes for no reason is just pisses fans off (fallout 3, newest command and conquer). New graphics, for such an old game to be a sequel for, is a requirement obvious. However many games do not require new graphics in sequels.

Paradox did not make Majesty. They are the publisher. It is up to the developer to make and design the games. The only games that Paradox has a hand in its gameplay are games named Victoria, Euriopa, Hearts of Iron, Crusader Kings. Nothing else. If you want to blame someone for how the game is not to your liking dont blame paradox.

 

[unmerged(52731)]

I actually like the game. Its some mindless fun. However there is one key issue which makes me agree with you - the game could have been so much more. Especially in the sim department. Its a real shame that majesty likely dies here, cause the potential was amazing. Shows what happens when you shrug off a great IP on some no-name russian development studio.

Still, I enjoy playing it. But its not engageing so much as the overwhelming challenge of some of the missions drags you in. No simulation of anything, just a rush. Sad.

 

[unmerged(52731)]

Passive indirect control of Heroes is nothing new, a lot of companies have done it in a lot of games a lot better than in Majesty 2!

Really??? What games> this type of gameplay is awesome IMO, but like you said, majesty 2 fails at it.

 

[IamMeeks]

Geez, do we really need yet another one of these threads?

 

[jonlucero]

Paradox did not make Majesty. They are the publisher. It is up to the developer to make and design the games. The only games that Paradox has a hand in its gameplay are games named Victoria, Euriopa, Hearts of Iron, Crusader Kings. Nothing else. If you want to blame someone for how the game is not to your liking dont blame paradox.

+1, You can't hate Paradox. Disappointed? Why not try playing EuIII instead? Conquer Sweden... and then the whole world while your at it.

 

[unmerged(169164)]

Paradox you failed big with Majesty 2, you betrayed the fans of the Majesty series and you have failed to make it right. Majesty is supposed to be a Fantasy Kingdom SIM, do you know what's wrong here? Do you know why so many fans hated this? Do you know why this is an utter fail and most people won't even remember it a year from now?

Quite a dangerous prediction to be made. Quite unfair too as it seems to me that the dead line is pushed back everytime. First, it was one year plus a couple of months after release. Now it is nearly two years after release.

Considering the bursts of anger that keep bubbling up now and then, I think in one year, some people will still remember their 'hate' to the game and feel the urge of expressing it.

Feedback: impossible to include it in the present version of the game.

Once again, not sure you can revive Majesty in present days. I would enjoy it but after taking into account the various variables and parameters, I doubt it.


There was also no Majesty series before the second opus.

 

[unmerged(210145)]

Are Majesty 2 and Kingmaker great games?
I think that is a matter of your personal taste.

Constructive criticism is something I share with some other posters.
Negative idealism and trolling is complaining for its own sake.

I will buy the next expansion when it comes out.

I hope they will eventually make some of the best changes that posters have made about the editor, AI etc, but I will stay play the game from time to time and enjoy it.

 

[bombshellboi]

I havent played Majesty 2 or its expansion, but I want to disagree with the OP on one single point.

The blame for PI.

All a publisher is really supposed to do is put up the funding for the game, and getting it distributed. They dont usually get a say on the development process or anything like that. Or at least its my opinion that they shouldnt.
Look at what EA does on a regular basis to development studios it publishes for. And Atari is even worst for it. Lucasarts is another bad one.

Unreasonable deadlines. Forcing changes during development meaning the team loses time. Cutting off funding prematurely. Etc.

Paradox seems to take a more hands off and friendly approach to publishing for its developer partners. Perhaps because PI is a developer too and knows how it feels to deal with overly controlling publishing houses *cough*Koch Media/Deep Silver*cough*.
While it doesnt always work as may be the case here with Majesty 2. I think on the whole giving developers more of a free reign will work out better for them than doing an Atari or EA or Lucasarts on their developers, I mean PI is likely to last as a company because of the good will it garners from releasing good games, its support of said games, and of its approach to its development studio partners where as other companies will die.
Case in point. Atari was formerly Infogrames and it was dying a slow death because of its business practices so it bought the Atari name in a last ditch attempt to save itself and promptly ruined the Atari name by not bothering to actually change the causes of their near death; so now Atari too is dying a slow and painful death.
EA and Lucasarts have similar policies to Atari but fortunately for both of these companies have managed to hit upon two hugely successful franchises that they can milk for as much money as they need for as long as they need (EA Sports and Star Wars respectively) but eventually they will have to change or even the popularity of these franchises wont save them.

I would much rather PI stay friendly and risk losses and failures like you claim Majesty 2 is than become an overly controlling monster company like Atari, EA, or Lucasarts.

 

[unmerged(203067)]

:wacko:

 

[Duuk]

Fans of the ORIGINAL Majesty might dislike the game, but the game itself is fun and entertaining.

Since I never played the original, I've enjoyed it quite a bit.

 

[unmerged(203067)]

Quite understandable if (in a simulated comparison) you find warcraft 2 to be like a warcraft -1 but with 3d graphics. No matter what, the Majesty idea is hella fun (for me). How funnier could it have been if done decently. Even retardedly done is funny.

 

[Nerdfish]

I wouldn't call it a failed or dead game.
The problem with this iteration seemed to be the developer's reluctance to invest substantially for a AI engine adequate for the job. The lack of sim element can be considered a consequence of that. The AI simply isn't capable then much more then monsters that head straight for the town or heroes that fights and runs.

SIM type of game requires a more powerful autonomous AI. The developer seemed to have not realized that problem. Instead they went ahead and developed another game and marketed it as such. Paradox might have chosen a better developer. At least point however, I think there is little that hasn't been said or isn't known to them.

An adequate AI might have been beyond the budget for the game. I really have no idea how much money was allocated to M2's development.

 

[unmerged(203067)]

i havent look for it myself, out of pure mental lazyness, but, is there any Ino-Co forum where all this criticism can go much better?, lol.

I bet not; yet, im so lazy im not able to use google to search for it by just tipying that.


Lol at threads like this and the such and myself.



Pd: after such simple search, they have no forum, just a "weird blog"; quite reasonable, understanding market policies commonly used.


Try to fuck them with their failure there folks. And, first of all, enjoy learning russian!. Irony and sarcasm. What else could fit better?.

 

[unmerged(139034)]

Geez, do we really need yet another one of these threads?

Yeah well this is my first, I stuck up for Paradox and I feel betrayed. They obviously just don't care.

 

[unmerged(139034)]

Are Majesty 2 and Kingmaker great games?
I think that is a matter of your personal taste.

Doesn't matter, my personal taste isn't the issue. This has no right to be called Majesty 2, it's not a sequel it's a spin off, the sim elements are removed, the AI is reduced to mindless attack bots, this is just a simplified RTS game.

Constructive criticism is something I share with some other posters.
Negative idealism and trolling is complaining for its own sake.

Ok, well I provided constructive criticism, I was just very negative about it.

I will buy the next expansion when it comes out.

And then you won't even remember it four years from now.

I hope they will eventually make some of the best changes that posters have made about the editor, AI etc, but I will stay play the game from time to time and enjoy it.

Some people will be satisfied with anything they purchase and want more, no matter what it has or what it lacks. I think a lot of the satisfaction with this game boils down to two things, it's colorful (many people are easily amused by bright colors) and it can be challenging at times. If building mindless attack bots to fight other mindless attack bots with no sim elements is your idea of a "Great Game" kudos on enjoying what you got. You could get just as much gameplay out of a flash game.

For those asking passive control has been around since populous and has been seen in a lot of games, Majesty 1 was the first Kingdom Sim with it though, and the last. Majesty 2 isn't a Fantasy Kingdom Sim, it's a stripped down over-simplified spin off RTS game.

 

[WaltherModel]

I actually like the game. Its some mindless fun.

That is the PROBLEM with it. Yes you can, and everyone here can "like" the game. Yes it is mindless fun as you say. Its like a flash game, a party game on the wii something like that. And those games do have their place - to kill 15 minutes here and there, to play with your friends when your drunk.

The problem here my friends is that Majesty didn't used to be considered "mindless fun" and a game you "liked, but then shelved." It was a GREAT concept, it was very engaging, there was strategic decision points to be made ala the disciples series, where you had to choose which units to get (which was taken away in "M2") the hero AI was groundbreaking, the concept of indirect control was groundbreaking and it set apart from any other game out there. Thats the point. Its not supposed to be what it has become, which I agree with you is likeable mindless fun.

However there is one key issue which makes me agree with you - the game could have been so much more. Especially in the sim department. Its a real shame that majesty likely dies here, cause the potential was amazing. Shows what happens when you shrug off a great IP on some no-name russian development studio.

Precisely. Its just a sad state that, so many video game studios don't care. They don't care to make something more, to take a game to its potential, to run with a great idea, and great IP as you say. They get lazy, and try to milk it for all the money they can, then move on. Whats even sadder is, its become acceptable in the industry to alot of people that these things happen, people just "chalk it up to the times" of rising costs, which makes people become less creative, and say well, thats how it is. You could try to make parallels to how these business practices would last in other lines of work...and perhaps in some cases they are happening indeed in other industries as well...depressing

Others have chimed in this thread, so I won't quote everyone, but basically you have half the people saying oh you can't blame pdox, and half blaming them, and the point of it all is, at the end of the day, who had their hands in the proverbial cookie car? Even as the publisher, pdox did. Perhaps they didn't rape the series as much as the devs did, but they sure as heck didn't try to stop the raping, and watched and took their profits from the crime.

But its not engageing so much as the overwhelming challenge of some of the missions drags you in. No simulation of anything, just a rush. Sad.

Sad indeed. How I wished someone in the industry cared as much as the fans.


@ValentineHeart - are you the same as on the disciples forums? I have seen your monikor there and read some of your posts. I have the same ID there as I do here, if it is indeed the same you thought it was cool, as I tend to agree with your thoughts.