with the new species integration mechanic, there shouldn't be traits that make said integration impossible

[Zarganthrax]

so I was recently playing a game, trying out the mutagenic tradition, as an idylic loom hive empire, when I realized that the gaia seeders, give to a feww hundred pops every year or so, a special trait, which, don't give me wrong, it's cool and all, but I was wondering, since now with the new pop system, we can slowly integrate said pops into other subspecies, why is it, that as a fully ascended empire, I can't do the same with traits gained from events ?

is it an oversight, some kind of balance decision (although, considering that now, having multiple species on one planet, actually increases pop growth, I doubt it)

I just found this specific situation kind of odd and possibly a part of the game that was overlooked, due to how specific it was (afterall, I am a fully ascended empire, I completed my genetic tradition, researched all the important genetic technologies, so by all means, I don't see why I shouldn't be allowed, to integrate my pops into having this specific trait (or at least having the option to make a decision to reset the cooldown on the gaia seeder, to add this trait to more pops at the cost of some energy or perhaps another ressource, thematecially, I think zro would fit)

 

[Thiend]

It is a balance decision, because some traits are designed to only be rare.

For example, brain slug host - designed to give a very strong bonus, but a penalty, and not be on your entire species. This has had some QoL problems in all patches, in particular for that case actually because the penalty is based on your pops with it but your bonus is based on your leaders with it. That one is actually better in 4.0 because of the change in how growth works.

Most such traits are designed in a way that makes just blanket allowing integration a bad idea. Most of them are too strong. Some are narratively rare.

The integration system and genemodding in general aren't strictly compatible with these traits. I'd much prefer if you could mod them, but they'd need limitations of some sort.

 

[L-Histidine]

I don't mind unique traits, but I wish they didn't add a lot of micromanagement to species changes (one of the most needless cases is a Cybernetic Creed empire requiring separate templates for pops with and without Ritualistic Implants).

 

[Dr Pippy]

It is a balance decision, because some traits are designed to only be rare.

For example, brain slug host - designed to give a very strong bonus, but a penalty, and not be on your entire species. This has had some QoL problems in all patches, in particular for that case actually because the penalty is based on your pops with it but your bonus is based on your leaders with it. That one is actually better in 4.0 because of the change in how growth works.

Most such traits are designed in a way that makes just blanket allowing integration a bad idea. Most of them are too strong. Some are narratively rare.

The integration system and genemodding in general aren't strictly compatible with these traits. I'd much prefer if you could mod them, but they'd need limitations of some sort.

In principle, this is fine — you shouldn't be able to add or remove things like Brain Slug Host. In practice, there are way too many traits that aren't removable, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to them.

If the jerk of an AI decided to gene mod his pops to have Noxious and Nascent Stage, I should be able to have a way to at least apply the original template rather than be stuck with crappy traits because for some reason you're not allowed to remove Existential Iteropathy or whatever it's called.

 

[Thiend]

In principle, this is fine — you shouldn't be able to add or remove things like Brain Slug Host. In practice, there are way too many traits that aren't removable, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason to them.

If the jerk of an AI decided to gene mod his pops to have Noxious and Nascent Stage, I should be able to have a way to at least apply the original template rather than be stuck with crappy traits because for some reason you're not allowed to remove Existential Iteropathy or whatever it's called.

As far as standard positive traits that CAN be modded on and off, my longstanding opinion is that there should exist a lategame tech that allows adding negative and removing positive traits.

This also removes the QoL loss of needing to pre-load negatives in empire creation if you'll need the points later, which happens commonly for Cybernetic and Cloning, as well as rarely for Psionic (I've done it so that when I gain two points from the actual genemodding tech I'll have the four required for Venerable).

For the ones that you can't normally add at all, the best I've got is that Brainslug Host specifically could be made to work like Latent Psionic - all of your pops would have a trait, but it would only give some of your leaders a trait. For the rest, I'd favor adjusting them in whatever way necessary to allow genemodding to work normally. It's quite annoying to have to manage two versions of a species because one of them has a trait like that.

 

[Ilab]

As far as standard positive traits that CAN be modded on and off, my longstanding opinion is that there should exist a lategame tech that allows adding negative and removing positive traits.

This also removes the QoL loss of needing to pre-load negatives in empire creation if you'll need the points later, which happens commonly for Cybernetic and Cloning, as well as rarely for Psionic (I've done it so that when I gain two points from the actual genemodding tech I'll have the four required for Venerable).

For the ones that you can't normally add at all, the best I've got is that Brainslug Host specifically could be made to work like Latent Psionic - all of your pops would have a trait, but it would only give some of your leaders a trait. For the rest, I'd favor adjusting them in whatever way necessary to allow genemodding to work normally. It's quite annoying to have to manage two versions of a species because one of them has a trait like that.

I think that a good solution would be that you can create an apply templates with such traits, but the traits themselves are not applied. That is, changing the system a bit such that applying a template only applies standard traits and ignores this kind of traits. I also think it should be doable, something like setting an attribute/flag for said traits that excludes them from application.

 

[Exasperation]

I think that a good solution would be that you can create an apply templates with such traits, but the traits themselves are not applied. That is, changing the system a bit such that applying a template only applies standard traits and ignores this kind of traits. I also think it should be doable, something like setting an attribute/flag for said traits that excludes them from application.

Maybe also separate template integration from habitability integration. It's pretty common for me when playing synth/machine to have three otherwise identical templates, one for each of the three machine habitability types, and when something happens that requires an upgrade of the templates there's a big to-do with trying to upgrade all of them without changing to the wrong habitability.