Woman as a ruler

[Shanalya]

in some realms, the women could reign... for exemple, in Scotland...

because if in France, only men could reign and until Philippe IV le Bel, if no sons, it was the husband's daugher who could be king (which created the 100 years war)

In other countries, such as "spanish" states, or "british" states, you could have a queen...

Maybe not in the 11th century, but around the XIIIth-XIVth...if I remember well

Nowadays, in Spain, Britain, Belgium a daughter if she is the eldest (Spain or Belgium) or without brothers (Britain) she can become queen by herself, with her husband who is a Consort.

 

[Orinsul]

is scotland an example? England yes as Matilda almost was, but who was ruler of scotland and also a girl?
And i expect this will already be in the release seeing as how many peopled asked and modded it into CK
but if its not then im sure lots of people will shout and get it back

it opens the door to alot of possibilities so it should be in
for game reasons as well as historical ones

 

[Shanalya]

Marie Stuart was Queen of Scotland after ther father's death... but it was in the XVIth

the first one was Marguerite from 1286 to 1290

In England, you had Marie Ire and then Elizabeth Ire from 1553-1603

Marie II Stuart was queen of England and Scotland

Anne Stuart signed the Union Act

 

[Beauclerc]

This discussion can't be properly held until Drachenfire turns up: the one user almost obsessed by the "female inheritance" issue.

 

[unmerged(31881)]

Well, it did happen from time to time, yes? So it would be good if it could be included. At the very least i hope CK2 at least makes it somehow moddable. It's like female bastards (err... illegitimate daughters). Sure, it wouldn't cause the universe to implode if they are not included.

But for Resulting Coolness vs. Probable Effort To Code*, i think it would be well worth it.

*i am obviously speculating on this half of the equation.

 

[Beauclerc]

The problem is that different cultures had different attitudes to this.

In England after the Conquest for example, when a Lord died without a male heir but had a female one, she would be placed under the wardship of the King. He may then arrange a suitable marriage for her, and in the meantime, the King was in effective control of the lands and their revenues.

As for Empress Matilda being an example. Despite the fact that her father had asked his barons to pledge allegiance to her, which they did, when the time came, the majority rejected her. This and the resulting civil war suggests how resistant nobles were in England at least to a woman being Queen (the fact that Maud was a highly unpleasant character probably didn't help).

The second problem is that this is a game about creating a Dynasty, and allowing a female to inherit your main titles effectively kills your dynasty unless you become one of the indirect male members of the dynasty (but then you've lost your titles).

I think it could be implemented into the game, but I think there should be a decent chance of it creating disarray, especially over the more prestigious titles.

 

[jordarkelf]

It should depend on the realm law. Under salic law no women ought to ever inherit, but in realms with male preference primogeniture (e.g. Britain and Iberia) women rulers should occasionally be possible. Under islam it should never occur.

I do hope that CK2 will eliminate the male drought issue, where out of necessity the player or AI will need to install female vassals to keep efficiency up.

 

[Zolotaya]

It should depend upon the law, but an example I think fits well the model that should be used is the Kalmar Union. Here is a quote from Wikipedia that gives the basics.

Margaret was working toward a union of Sweden with Denmark and Norway by having Olaf elected to the Swedish throne. She was on the verge of achieving this goal when Olaf IV suddenly died.[31] However, Denmark made Margaret temporary ruler upon the death of Olaf. On February 2, 1388, Norway followed suit and crowned Margaret.[31]

Queen Margaret knew that her power would be more secure if she were able to find a king to rule in her place. She settled on Eric of Pomerania, grandson of her sister. Thus at an all-Scandinavian meeting held at Kalmar, Erik of Pomerania was crowned king of all three Scandinavian countries. Thus, royal politics resulted in personal unions between the Nordic countries, eventually bringing the thrones of Norway, Denmark, and Sweden under the control of Queen Margrethe I of Denmark when the country entered into the Kalmar Union.

Here we see that while Margaret made every attempt to bring a male heir to the throne(s), when it all came down to it, both Denmark and Norway legitimized her as ruler.

The game mechanics could legitimize a female in the same way, ensuring a dynasty's continuation.

Karen Larsen, A History of Norway p.202- 203 is a source they cited.

 

[.Spartan]

I would like to see this included as a national idea if such a mechanic is to be in the game.

 

[Keinwyn]

I would like to see women inheriting the title, but their husband ruling. f.e. the Kingdom of Jerusalem. The title remains with the woman and her descendants or family.

In CKI it was really annoying having your son inherit his maternal grandfathers realms at the age of 2, or the grandfather dieing whilst your wife is pregnant so you just miss out on the lands.

 

[the_legion]

There where succession rules in CK, I see no reason why there
shouldn't be a succession-rule that allowes women.

 

[Veldmaarschalk]

I have a feeling that there will be laws in the game that allow females to inherit and that you can play with them and that if she gets children it will not be game over.

In CK1 you couldn't do that of course cause the children were from a different dynastie and if someone from a different dynastie inherited you it would be game over.

This different dynastie-rule was also the reason that it was never a real choice to pick a semi-salic law since then your heir would be from a different dynastie, so why would you ever pick such a law. Therefor for a player it wouldn't make sense to have such a law in the game (for the player to choose, for the AI it was a different matter of course).

The goal of CK1 was to keep your dynastie alive, but who ever failed in doing that ? You maybe made a mistake once but once you knew which law to pick you did that and you never had any problem with keeping it alive again.

I don't know how they are going to do this, maybe something like in V2 when the ACW starts you can choose to play either as the USA or CSA. As an example,

You are Sven Knytling, king of Denmark, who as his heir has his daughter Margaretha. Sven dies and you then continue playing as Margaretha. She marries Waldemar Gryfita and they have children and Margaretha's heir is then a boy named Fredrik Gryfita. Then Margaretha dies, you get a pop-up asking you

1. Do you want to continue as Fredrik Gryfita, king of Denmark
2. Do you want to continue as Knud Knytling, duke of Scania*

Where Knud is the most powerfull ruler in the game of the Knytling dynastie.

I have of course no idea if this will work out this way and I am just speculating here.

 

[Keinwyn]

You are Sven Knytling, king of Denmark, who as his heir has his daughter Margaretha. Sven dies and you then continue playing as Margaretha. She marries Waldemar Gryfita and they have children and Margaretha's heir is then a boy named Fredrik Gryfita. Then Margaretha dies, you get a pop-up asking you

1. Do you want to continue as Fredrik Gryfita, king of Denmark
2. Do you want to continue as Knud Knytling, duke of Scania*

Where Knud is the most powerfull ruler in the game of the Knytling dynastie.

I like this. Although maybe instead of most powerful member of your dynasty it could be her closest (land owning) relative of the same dynasty, like if she has a bastard son, her bastard brother or cousin?

 

[Txini]

in some realms, the women could reign... for exemple, in Scotland...

because if in France, only men could reign and until Philippe IV le Bel, if no sons, it was the husband's daugher who could be king (which created the 100 years war)

In other countries, such as "spanish" states, or "british" states, you could have a queen...

Maybe not in the 11th century, but around the XIIIth-XIVth...if I remember well

Nowadays, in Spain, Britain, Belgium a daughter if she is the eldest (Spain or Belgium) or without brothers (Britain) she can become queen by herself, with her husband who is a Consort.

Actual Law in Spain continues to be the same as in Britain, a woman can inherit if she has no brothers, if a brother the male will inherit.

In Spain there were Kings early on like Urraca of Castille (1109-1126), Petronila of Aragon (1137-1164) or Johanna I of Navarra (1274-1305)

 

[DPS]

Maybe not in the 11th century, but around the XIIIth-XIVth...if I remember well

Dang, you're old.

But you're right, at that age you should definately doubt your memory.

 

[magritte2]

I think there should be a realm law to allow female inheritance, but females should suffer a significant penalty to vassal loyalty and be easier to make claims on than male heirs. While female rulers existed in medieval times, they frequently faced serious struggles to maintain power (Matilda in England being a good example).

 

[SAS]

I like this idea, maybe when the female ruler dies you then play as her first born even though the dynasty changes or you go to the last heir of the dynasty name.

 

[tretii_sleva]

The only was I see it - is when female rules as regent while her child is growing. Once he is grown - out of the way, silly woman.

 

[LordofSaxony]

You are Sven Knytling, king of Denmark, who as his heir has his daughter Margaretha. Sven dies and you then continue playing as Margaretha. She marries Waldemar Gryfita and they have children and Margaretha's heir is then a boy named Fredrik Gryfita. Then Margaretha dies, you get a pop-up asking you

1. Do you want to continue as Fredrik Gryfita, king of Denmark
2. Do you want to continue as Knud Knytling, duke of Scania*

Where Knud is the most powerfull ruler in the game of the Knytling dynastie.

I have of course no idea if this will work out this way and I am just speculating here.

It's pretty fitting since.. for example..

The Tudor dynasty or House of Tudor was a prominent European royal house of Welsh origin[1] that ruled the Kingdom of England and its realms, including the Lordship and Kingdom of Ireland, from 1485 until 1603. Its first monarch was Henry Tudor, descended patrilineally from the rulers of the Welsh principality of Deheubarth,[2] and maternally from a legitimized branch of the English royal House of Lancaster. The Tudor family rose to power in the wake of the Wars of the Roses, which left the House of Lancaster, to which the Tudors were aligned, extirpated.

But, I don't think you should get an option, you would need to take choice #1 because it would be almost like your dynasty "starting over" again - yet still having a direct bloodline, even if it's maternal. Yet, you would still be able to play and continue playing on your original lands. Basically, it would be used as a bailout option, and still make women rulers a handy backup. But, in the wake of doing so you lose your original last name, but you continue your bloodline. Perhaps because he's not sharing the last name of your previous rulers, the son would take a prestige hit because of it? On top of that, it might cause rebellious civil wars if "cousins" of the bloodline are still alive. On the bright side, if you truly and utterly want to continue playing your bloodline with it's original last name, let your cousins win.

 

[unmerged(40328)]

The only was I see it - is when female rules as regent while her child is growing. Once he is grown - out of the way, silly woman.

A regency option may be nice, now that you mention it.

But I thought I'd cut and paste a list I typed up on some reigning "silly" women pre 1453. Happened enough that it should be included somehow in CK2:

Byzantium - Zoe, Irene, and three Theodoras. Scandinavia - Margaret I (kinda important, there, right?). Italy - a bunch, including Matilda of Canossa. Iberia - About 8 queens regnant. Poland - Hedwig. Hungary - Mary. England - Debateably Empress Matilda. Other - Eleanor of Aquitaine.