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Wolf von Versweber

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May 17, 2018
12
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Fallenkezef said:
It's like post war Germany, for 30 years they could barely produce a cutlery set, then they got western support for their military-industry complex and became one of Europe's biggest arm's manufacturers in a decade.
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What are you talking about? The "Bundeswehr" (German Army) wasn't created till ten years after WW 2 (1955) for political reasons, not technological ones. Germany started developing their own military equipment - like the Leopard 1 mbt - only one year later (1956) with mass production / delivery in 1965. The tanks were also sold to other allies shortly after that.

There was economic support in 1948 (Marshall-Plan) only three years after the war and some transfer of equipment when the Bundeswehr was created (1955), because western allies actually wanted West-Germany as a buffer for the UDSSR and development and production takes some time.
There wasn't any massive rebuilding effort or transfer of technology in 1975 and building up to date military equipment certainly wasn't a problem long before that point.
 
Wolf von Versweber said:
What are you talking about? The "Bundeswehr" (German Army) wasn't created till ten years after WW 2 (1955) for political reasons, not technological ones. Germany started developing their own military equipment - like the Leopard 1 mbt - only one year later (1956) with mass production / delivery in 1965. The tanks were also sold to other allies shortly after that.

There was economic support in 1948 (Marshall-Plan) only three years after the war and some transfer of equipment when the Bundeswehr was created (1955), because western allies actually wanted West-Germany as a buffer for the UDSSR and development and production takes some time.
There wasn't any massive rebuilding effort or transfer of technology in 1975 and building up to date military equipment certainly wasn't a problem long before that point.
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1) The vast majority of Bundeswehr kit till the 70's was American. It took Germany 30 years after ww2 to rebuild it's arms industry and then in a decade became an cornerstone of NATO arms production. Don't get knickers in a twist, it's a statement of fact to support an analogy not an attack.

2) Leo 1 was the LEAST exported NATO tank of that time period. M60 was exported to the most nations, followed by the Centurion.
 
Is it an invasion by the HoI forum?

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This belongs to the history forum.
 
Antediluvian Monster said:
I thought it belonged to your thread? https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/battletech-is-ruining-the-ot-forum.1075110/
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No, that thread is obviously about Battletech, you know that game that was published by paradox not to long ago. While this conversation is about an issue that falls under the umbrella of the history of the German armed forces and thus belongs to the history forum. Please cease all further attempts at (poorly done) trolling. Thank you.
 
Mder1 said:
Please cease all further attempts at (poorly done) trolling. Thank you
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I don't think you are seeing the meta picture. You made a prophetic thread about BT ruining the OT, and now we actually have our first example of discussion from there seeping here (or, uh, 'there' as I should say). It would be such a fine addition to your thread.

But alas, this historic piece is now banished to the history forums, never to be seen again.
 
Fallenkezef said:
1) The vast majority of Bundeswehr kit till the 70's was American. It took Germany 30 years after ww2 to rebuild it's arms industry and then in a decade became an cornerstone of NATO arms production. Don't get knickers in a twist, it's a statement of fact to support an analogy not an attack.

2) Leo 1 was the LEAST exported NATO tank of that time period. M60 was exported to the most nations, followed by the Centurion.
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That's mostly correct, but it wasn't your original statement.

To quote you: "It's like post war Germany, for 30 years they could barely produce a cutlery set, then they got western support for their military-industry complex"

This statement is objectively false and contradicts the statements you are making now. The point wasn't that the Leo 1 was the most exported tank, the point was how could germany develop and produce a mbt from '55-'65, if they didn't have the ability till '75 and needed western support?

The numbers for the analogy are still off by more than half, because nobody tried to rebuild it till '55 and it didn't take till '75 to produce weapons.

I didn't take it as an attack, merely as a historically wrong statement.
 
It's not like Germany didn't have the technical ability to produce military equipment, despite the removal of thousands of pieces of industrial machinery after WWII to intentionally cripple Germany as an industrial power, it's that there was a small matter called "politics" in the way.

Being "barely able to produce a cutlery set" might apply to the couple of years immediately after the war, while the country literally rebuilt itself from the ashes, but not to 1955, and certainly not in 1975. The statement was simply wrong.

This is not BattleTech, where the universe takes 200 years to rebuild itself after the fall of the Star League (see, it is gradually taking over the forums, and is now encroaching on the History Forum).
 
Kovax said:
This is not BattleTech, where the universe takes 200 years to rebuild itself after the fall of the Star League (see, it is gradually taking over the forums, and is now encroaching on the History Forum).
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Aaargh! Burn it with fire!

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Plasma fire...
 
Fanstar1 said:
What is BattleTech?
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Link What is Battletech.


Though, for the purposes of this threads history; just a pretext for some to discuss WW2 Germany no matter how tangential or offtopic which we ask community members to be more aware of what forum you are posting in please. The usual. :D


Whether your hearts be of iron, or of fusion and endo-steel,

Carry on warriors.
 
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Sherman was better than Panther.
 
Operation Sealion would have been a walk in the park.
 
The bombing of Hiroshima was an inside job.
 
viale said:
Germany would have won if not for the Greece campaign.
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Barbarossa couldn't have been set further back as the spring snow melt left all the rivers flooded, preventing the kind of blitzkrieg tactics that would be critical for germany to have any chance against soviets.
 
Fanstar1 said:
Barbarossa couldn't have been set further back as the spring snow melt left all the rivers flooded, preventing the kind of blitzkrieg tactics that would be critical for germany to have any chance against soviets.
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Also the Italians fault, I bet all their tears flooded the rivers.
 
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