Home Trending Latest threads New posts Developer diaries

[WW2] Uses of Tungsten/Wolfram

Jump to latest Follow Reply
  • We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
12doze12

12doze12

First Lieutenant
9 Badges
Feb 11, 2011
257
159
  • Magicka: Wizard Wars Founder Wizard
  • Crusader Kings II: Horse Lords
  • Age of Wonders III
  • Imperator: Rome Sign Up
  • Crusader Kings II
  • Europa Universalis III
  • Europa Universalis III: Chronicles
  • Divine Wind
  • Heir to the Throne
Most people usually mention the use of Tungsten in gun barrels, however, was there any other use for it?

Looking at information about the impact of Tungsten in Steel alloys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy_steel#Material_science) it seems that Tungsten increases the melting point of steel. I guess that's enough to understand why it was used in gun barrels but would this property be useful in other things in WW2? Perhaps in armor plating? Given the scarcity of tungsten I guess it would be used in the most important aspect, but still curious if there was any thought or experiments of using tungsten for other things.
 
Not aware of it being component in gun barrels or armour plate. It was used for special ammunition carried in small numbers (and in case of Germany mid war onwards, generally not at all) as stated above. Regular armour piercing rounds did not use tungsten.

But the main use, AFAIK, was in high-speed steels for increasing productivity and not in any finished war material.
 
bz249 said:
Pressed tungsten carbide was a typical cutting tool as replacement for industry diamond. Hence the german name Widia (Wie Diamant=like a diamond)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cemented_carbide
Click to expand...

It's not just a replacement, but in some cases superior - as a cutter, diamond cuts faster, and lasts longer. Tungsten carbide cuts slower (usually) and wears out faster, but makes a MUCH more precise cut, and the cutter itself can be formed into a variety of shapes far more easily than diamond based cutters can be. making it superior for machining small or complex parts.

This use of tungsten is something like 1,000 times more important than it's use as an alloying element in steels.

As already noted it's critical for high performance armor piercing penetraters, where it's used unalloyed.
 
bz249 said:
Pressed tungsten carbide was a typical cutting tool as replacement for industry diamond. Hence the german name Widia (Wie Diamant=like a diamond)
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cemented_carbide
Click to expand...
Also when alloyed with steel makes a very good tool steel (HSS - High speed steel) which is used for both cuting tools and die parts.

As a curiosity: high speed steel is called like that because after its discovery it allowed cutting machines to run much faster.
 
Last edited:
Tungsten, or wolfram alloys were also used among the tools of fortress troops in the WWII. For instance, when building tank obstacles of stone, or rock, hardy blades were needed for cutting. Tungsten and wolfram was used in tools and blades, like demolition equipment and machine hammers.
 
elektrizikekswerk said:
Tungsten = wolfram ;)
Click to expand...

Yes, I know that, thank you very much. I even know, that the English substitute for the word wolfram have Swedish origins, tung = heavy and sten = stone. So, it should be heavy stone, not tungsten in English;).

But I don’t know the origins of the word wolfram, so if you happen to know the facts I would appreciate if you told me:).
 
Jopa79 said:
Yes, I know that, thank you very much. I even know, that the English substitute for the word wolfram have Swedish origins, tung = heavy and sten = stone. So, it should be heavy stone, not tungsten in English;).

But I don’t know the origins of the word wolfram, so if you happen to know the facts I would appreciate if you told me:).
Click to expand...

From German Wikipedia via Google translate since I'm lazy

As early as the 16th century, the Freiberg mineralogist Georgius Agricola described the occurrence of a mineral in Saxon tin ores, which makes the extraction of tin by slagging the tin fraction considerably more difficult. The name component "Wolf" stems from this property, as the mineral "gobbles up" the tin ore like a wolf. Whether or not it is tungsten is still controversial today, as it spoke of the "lightness" of the mineral. He called the mineral lupi spuma, which means "wolf (s) foam". Later it was called Wolfram, from Middle High German Rām "soot, cream, dirt", because the black-gray mineral is very easily rubbed and then reminds of soot. [10] His chemical symbol W comes from Wolfram.
 
Last edited:
Speaking of industrial aspects of WW2, it's clear from the American strategic bombing campaign that the German ball bearing industry was considered a priority target. Why? What were ball bearings actually used for? I've even seen references in old films (Clark Gable holds one up in 'Command Decision' when briefing, describing them as the cornerstone of the German industry, but never explains how or why) but nobody ever says what they are for.
 
Victor1234 said:
Speaking of industrial aspects of WW2, it's clear from the American strategic bombing campaign that the German ball bearing industry was considered a priority target. Why? What were ball bearings actually used for? I've even seen references in old films (Clark Gable holds one up in 'Command Decision' when briefing, describing them as the cornerstone of the German industry, but never explains how or why) but nobody ever says what they are for.
Click to expand...
The USairforce was looking for a vulnerable industrial bottle neck target which quickly yields results. Electricity, fuel production and...ball bearings they choose.
Almost every mechanical device from Kübelwagen to artillery piece had ball bearings in ww2 and there been only 4 major plants for those in Germany. They thought wreckign them would paralyze German war production.

The campaign was a failure tho, the production droped only by a third and the losses been inacceptable for little effect, Germany had large stockpiles of those and could compliment their stock with imports too.
 
As said, virtually every complex machine with moving parts used ball bearings: automotive and aircraft engines, industrial machinery, drive shafts, and so on. The problem with bombing the production facilities was that the bombs tended to collapse the roofs onto the machinery beneath, which then tended to shield the heavy and sturdy equipment from further bomb damage. Clear away the debris, replace a few of the more breakable pieces, and you're back up and running again in a matter of days. The loss in ouput was far less than predicted, and the existing supplies more than adequate to cover the temporary drops in production.

The REAL bottleneck which wasn't heavily exploited was the electrical grid. Unlike the American system, Germany's electrical grid had very little redundancy, and the loss of only a few stations and lines could have caused major blackouts. Since it wasn't seen as a problem in the US, it wasn't noticed as a vulnerability in Germany until after the war.
 
12doze12 said:
Most people usually mention the use of Tungsten in gun barrels, however, was there any other use for it?

Looking at information about the impact of Tungsten in Steel alloys (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alloy_steel#Material_science) it seems that Tungsten increases the melting point of steel. I guess that's enough to understand why it was used in gun barrels but would this property be useful in other things in WW2? Perhaps in armor plating? Given the scarcity of tungsten I guess it would be used in the most important aspect, but still curious if there was any thought or experiments of using tungsten for other things.
Click to expand...
Tungsten can be made into incredibly hard and incredibly heat-resistant materials, so it was used for things that were under extreme material stresses, examples include:
1. Machine tools
2. Armor piercing projectiles
3. Filaments for lightbulbs, cathode tubes, and x-ray tubes.

Tungsten is comparably hard to get compared to steel so making tungsten armor for tanks is not feasible.
 
Kovax said:
The REAL bottleneck which wasn't heavily exploited was the electrical grid. Unlike the American system, Germany's electrical grid had very little redundancy, and the loss of only a few stations and lines could have caused major blackouts. Since it wasn't seen as a problem in the US, it wasn't noticed as a vulnerability in Germany until after the war.
Click to expand...
Hmmm... I think I remember having read some intelligence report or something like that about German (and Japanese) electricity grids from the early war years (i.e. prior to the mass bombing on Germany) and the conclusion (in both cases) was:
Vulnerable target: Yes
High priority: No

I try to dig that paper up again - maybe I'm just remembering things wrong.

/edit: That was easy: https://media.defense.gov/2017/Dec/29/2001861964/-1/-1/0/T_GRIFFITH_STRATEGIC_ATTACK.PDF

Actually not an intelligence report but based on those. The thesis is by far more recent.

The conclusion was: German electricity grid was vulnerable and high priority target first. But when the actual bombing began the priorities were shifted to more pressing demands (i.e. aircraft and submarine production). And later they discovered that attacking the power grid would have only small effect on the industries because most bigger industrial plants had a decentral power supply anyways (i.e. they had their own generators).
 
Last edited:
MCMartel said:
Tungsten can be made into incredibly hard and incredibly heat-resistant materials, so it was used for things that were under extreme material stresses, examples include:
1. Machine tools
2. Armor piercing projectiles
3. Filaments for lightbulbs, cathode tubes, and x-ray tubes.

Tungsten is comparably hard to get compared to steel so making tungsten armor for tanks is not feasible.
Click to expand...

Plus machining tungsten is quite a headache, because it is hard, brittle and extremely heat resistant (so you cannot make a reasonably sized crucible for molten tungsten).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back