Year-end report of Paradox

[ToudCS]

Hi,
so the Year-end report January – December 2024 of Paradox is here: https://www.paradoxinteractive.com/investors/financial-reports/year-end-report-january-december-2024
We learn from it that Paradox bought the Haemimont Games studio responsible for the following titles:

While there is no official confirmation, some players have speculated whether this could impact Cities: Skylines II.

So far, there is no evidence that Haemimont Games will take over CS2 or that Colossal Order is stepping away from the project. However, we do know that CS2 has been a financial disappointment for Paradox, and it’s logical that they will try to improve the situation.

The lack of communication from CO on the forums is concerning, but without an official statement, we can only speculate on the reasons behind it.

What do you think? Could Paradox be planning a major shift in how CS2 is developed, or is this just a routine acquisition for a separate project?

 

[Civ5rako]

What do you think? Could Paradox be planning a major shift in how CS2 is developed, or is this just a routine acquisition for a separate project?

I don't think that CS2 will be handed over to another company.

From all what we know and can see (slow patch frequency, patches introducing new bugs, causing side effects) the code is messed up to a degree that changing the developer would be counter-productive.

I still think that CS2 is on the ropes and that its fate will be decided by two facts:
a) release of the consoles version
b) the relative success of that release

In addition, I am not optimistic about either of the two facts.

 

[unoace1006]

I don't think that CS2 will be handed over to another company.

From all what we know and can see (slow patch frequency, patches introducing new bugs, causing side effects) the code is messed up to a degree that changing the developer would be counter-productive.

I still think that CS2 is on the ropes and that its fate will be decided by two facts:
a) release of the consoles version
b) the relative success of that release

In addition, I am not optimistic about either of the two facts.

I think you're right, but it's an open question how much time they will be given to "right" the ship, so to speak. I'm not a financial analyst or anything like that, but I think it's positive that they continue to see CS2 as an important active game. Operating profits are up. Development costs are mostly stable.

"Amongst its most important active games are Cities: Skylines, Cities: Skylines II, Hearts of Iron IV, Crusader Kings III, Europa Universalis IV, Victoria 3, Stellaris and Age of Wonders 4." -PDX Report

 

[TrevorHall]

It's interesting that the original game is still in the active list. Sometimes I consider starting it up again, but I feel like I've exhausted all the gameplay ideas. After well over a year, I am also out of steam with CS II. Some issues have been open for so long that I'm no longer expecting a fix. Problems like empty roads in large cities, no tourists (compared to CS I), almost no crime, and endless tedious bugs like buildings that spawn or upgrade with "no pedestrian access" have become frustrating.

 

[Fampa]

How do "we do know that CS2 has been a financial disappointment for Paradox"? Where did you get that info?

 

[Civ5rako]

"Amongst its most important active games are Cities: Skylines, Cities: Skylines II, Hearts of Iron IV, Crusader Kings III, Europa Universalis IV, Victoria 3, Stellaris and Age of Wonders 4." -PDX Report

That's actually a very concerning statement.

The predecessor is on the same list as the successor. Not a good sign for the latter, not at all.
At this point of time, more than one whole year after release of CS2, if all would have gone as planned, CS1 should be history and only be kept in good memory. For sure it should no longer be one of the "most important active games".

And it is indicating that the time window for CS2 is closing, as the investment in it obviously doesn't pay off any way close to the original expectations. But it has to, as otherwise the investment will be just terminated.

 

[Civ5rako]

How do "we do know that CS2 has been a financial disappointment for Paradox"? Where did you get that info?

I think that can be deduced from the sales numbers.

a) CS2 was delayed for three (!) years. During that time PDX was subsidizing CO. That means they must have had really high expectations about its success.
b) CS2 has sold around 2 million copies till today, of which 1 million was sold in the first quarter past release. That means that over the course of 2024, a whole year, they only sold 1 million copies.
c) CS1 has sold 12 million copies till 2022. That's 1.5 million copies per year.

All these information indicate that CS2 is not as successful as its predecessor - and the initially high sales numbers undoubtedly were based on the success of CS1 - and still are. Nobody (tm) is going to buy it based on its own merits, as the ratings reveal.
Assume CS2 to be the original game with no predecessor, and its sales numbers would be devastating.

 

[rsimpson64]

I think that can be deduced from the sales numbers.

a) CS2 was delayed for three (!) years. During that time PDX was subsidizing CO. That means they must have had really high expectations about its success.
b) CS2 has sold around 2 million copies till today, of which 1 million was sold in the first quarter past release. That means that over the course of 2024, a whole year, they only sold 1 million copies.
c) CS1 has sold 12 million copies till 2022. That's 1.5 million copies per year.

All these information indicate that CS2 is not as successful as its predecessor - and the initially high sales numbers undoubtedly were based on the success of CS1 - and still are. Nobody (tm) is going to buy it based on its own merits, as the ratings reveal.
Assume CS2 to be the original game with no predecessor, and its sales numbers would be devastating.

From page 10 of the downloadable report (I added the bolding)

Revenues in the quarter are mainly attributable to Cities: Skylines, Cities: Skylines II, Crusader Kings III, Hearts of Iron IV and Stellaris. The decrease in revenue from last year is mainly due to the new games Cities: Skylines II and The Lamplighters League being released in the comparison period.

Paradox took a hefty bath with Lamplighter's write off. Bellular Gaming has an interesting video on it and they are a new gaming studio themselves so they understand some things better than us outsiders of the industry.

The delay for CS:2 (which, frankly, should have been another year) would be reflected in previous operating reports as expenses with no income. CS:2 was one of three not very good launches for Paradox if I remember correctly.

My take-aways from reading this 20 page report is a bit different:

• The Cities Skylines franchise remains an important component for Paradox revenue.
• CO/Paradox will continue to pursue a console port of CS:2 to boost their console revenues (think of the dlc/in-game shop profits). It is their best bet right now to boost console revenue and I have no doubt the Board of Directors are pushing.
• Paradox has a stable of aging games that need to be refreshed to keep the money rolling in. Will the purchase of Haemimont Games do that? Hmmm.

 

[Lys91]

TBH Haemimont Games seems to be the right people to build some sort of city-builder game. However, I don't think they would put them on CS2. They will keep CO on it or cancel it. I could see CS1 development restarting with the folks who did the console support and the most recent DLC.

My guess would be that Haemimont is taking on a new IP (or Majesty?)

 

[eVo_squirrel]

I think that can be deduced from the sales numbers.

a) CS2 was delayed for three (!) years. During that time PDX was subsidizing CO. That means they must have had really high expectations about its success.
b) CS2 has sold around 2 million copies till today, of which 1 million was sold in the first quarter past release. That means that over the course of 2024, a whole year, they only sold 1 million copies.
c) CS1 has sold 12 million copies till 2022. That's 1.5 million copies per year.

All these information indicate that CS2 is not as successful as its predecessor - and the initially high sales numbers undoubtedly were based on the success of CS1 - and still are. Nobody (tm) is going to buy it based on its own merits, as the ratings reveal.
Assume CS2 to be the original game with no predecessor, and its sales numbers would be devastating.

Comparing the number of copies sold of an established game that, in 2022, was celebrating its 7th anniversary with a newly released game seems quite unfair. This is especially true considering that Paradox games are generally incremental, meaning they continuously add content. It's like saying any new car released in 2024 is bad if it doesn't outperform the VW Golf, Volkswagen's best-selling car ever.

Even comparing just the release quarters wouldn't be fair. CS1 was released when the city-builder genre was just recovering from the fallout of SimCity, whereas now our expectations are much higher, largely due to CO's own success with CS1.

If I were part of CO, I wouldn't want to engage in the forum either, especially considering that every day there are new posts from the same group of people criticizing them. And please don't give me the "it's their own fault" argument. If you've ever worked with customers, you know they can be crappy even when their complaints are valid. Posts like these do nothing to help the game recover.

 

[BoraBora]

Comparing the number of copies sold of an established game that, in 2022, was celebrating its 7th anniversary with a newly released game seems quite unfair. This is especially true considering that Paradox games are generally incremental, meaning they continuously add content. It's like saying any new car released in 2024 is bad if it doesn't outperform the VW Golf, Volkswagen's best-selling car ever.

Even comparing just the release quarters wouldn't be fair. CS1 was released when the city-builder genre was just recovering from the fallout of SimCity, whereas now our expectations are much higher, largely due to CO's own success with CS1.

In its first year, CS sold 2 million copies, including 1 million in the first month, same as CS II. What's not fair is comparing a small game developed in 2 years by the 8 to 11 dev team of a then unknown company with the sequel of a best-seller franchise developed by 30 people (plus subcontractors) from 2018 to 2025 and counting. There is more CS1 reviews on Steam in the last 30 days than for CS2. That's not normal and we know the reason.

Posts like these do nothing to help the game recover.

No posts will help the game recover. None. Not yours, not mine. What will help the game recover is a lot of effective work from CO. The only useful sub-section is the bug reports, eventually the suggestions subforum and the rest is just us customers talking to each other. This is not an american football match and no employee in the world need cheerleaders to do what they're paid for.

BTW, going to the office from 9 to 5 to work on a computer is not "working with customers" unless you're working in a call-center. I know about working with customers. I was a bookseller for 20 years and my shop never had a community manager or a company spokesperson to work with the customers in my place.

 

[unoace1006]

The state of the game today plus the Asset Editor (even in Beta) gives us a “complete-ish” game. It’s the game that should have launched on Day 1. That being said, maybe others have different expectations.

I do hope the overly negative posts slamming CO slow to a trickle after the Editor.

That’s not to say features aren’t missing. But after the editor, perhaps they can provide some timelines around things like animations, snow, etc.

 

[IHOR MISKO]

I sympathize with Tropico fans, now their series of games will be turned into a DLC simulator.

And yes, I hope that CS2 will not be influenced by Tropico. It's not very likely, but still. Tropico is an interesting game, but it's about politics and economics, not cities.
As far as I know, Tropico is written on the unreal engine. Therefore, technical support is also unlikely for CS2.
In general, both Unity and unreal engine are terrible for games where you need to build cities. But such games are made by very small teams, so it is expected that they do not develop their own.

UPD.
Oh, they were already like a DLC simulator...

 

[ToudCS]

I sympathize with Tropico fans, now their series of games will be turned into a DLC simulator.

And yes, I hope that CS2 will not be influenced by Tropico. It's not very likely, but still. Tropico is an interesting game, but it's about politics and economics, not cities.
As far as I know, Tropico is written on the unreal engine. Therefore, technical support is also unlikely for CS2.
In general, both Unity and unreal engine are terrible for games where you need to build cities. But such games are made by very small teams, so it is expected that they do not develop their own.

UPD.
Oh, they were already like a DLC simulator...

Maybe Tropico will simply be another series in Paradox's portfolio, capable of growing significantly with Paradox's money. Between each Tropico installment I haven't seen any significant changes beyond "modernization".

 

[IHOR MISKO]

Maybe Tropico will simply be another series in Paradox's portfolio, capable of growing significantly with Paradox's money. Between each Tropico installment I haven't seen any significant changes beyond "modernization".

I have now read more about this studio.
First, I apologize for the misinformation about the engine (I thought this studio had also released part 6). They have their own engine. But if you look at what games have been released on it, it's a question of whether it will be good enough for games like Cities Skyline. But it's their own engine, they can change it absolutely as they want, plus it's designed for urban planning and strategies. So this is an interesting point in my opinion.
Secondly, they don't own the rights to Tropico, they have been working for someone else almost all the time.

This purchase is interesting, but I don't think we'll know soon whether it will have any impact on the Cities Skyline series or not. Who knows, maybe the third part will be released on their engine. Because I suspect many of the problems of Cities Skyline are related to the limitations of Unity. For example, CS1 has always worked on only one thread for me. And as for the limitation in agents (up to 65k), this was also a limitation of the engine of that version. If I remember correctly. If I'm wrong, please correct me.

 

[eVo_squirrel]

No posts will help the game recover. None. Not yours, not mine. What will help the game recover is a lot of effective work from CO. The only useful sub-section is the bug reports, eventually the suggestions subforum and the rest is just us customers talking to each other.

Absolutely correct.

This is not an american football match and no employee in the world need cheerleaders to do what they're paid for.

Needs no cheerleaders, nor antagonists painting it as the next Enron. Like you said, what they need from us, the customers, is bug reports and suggestions on what can be improved. Posts like this are just empty negativity that brings nothing to the table.

BTW, going to the office from 9 to 5 to work on a computer is not "working with customers" unless you're working in a call-center. I know about working with customers. I was a bookseller for 20 years and my shop never had a community manager or a company spokesperson to work with the customers in my place.

Good for you! But that just means your business was quite different from a software company that deals with a global community. And yes, a 9-5 community manager is "working with customers", if their function is to be here and deal with the customers.

 

[BoraBora]

Needs no cheerleaders, nor antagonists painting it as the next Enron. (...) Posts like this are just empty negativity that brings nothing to the table.

Empty positivity brings nothing to the table either. Anyway, seeing the others posts as empty is your opinion, not a fact.

Good for you! But that just means your business was quite different from a software company that deals with a global community. And yes, a 9-5 community manager is "working with customers", if their function is to be here and deal with the customers.

Yes, it's a community manager's work to deal with customers and nobody else in a software company has to. If you're not confortable with a global community, then you should envision another job. And BTW, yes, "it's their own fault". CS1 was and still is met with a lot of positivity and an awesome 91% rating on Steam.

 

[Hobbel68]

to fix CS2 there will be a redesign needed. I bought the because I loved cs1. Then I noticed that my pc, gpu, ram that could play new games on high fps and res was not good enough, as CS2 was a next gen game.
I bought for 1000€ new HW. just to notice it was not sufficient and so as a player I was mad , angry , frustrated and feared because my pc still blows on fans when playing CS2.
The only thing that now can be done to save the game is solve the GRAPHiC issues , and engine.
because the simulation on economics and game play is the best someone ever produced, to be almost real.
Offcourse there are still some things to implement, and can be developed with the community, as there are people that will come back.
So my advise would be, do not launch patch, do not launch console, do not any DLC, but build on solving he GPU. Because my thought is that the editor will not released until this graphic challenges are solved. Releasing the editor would cause even more players to be angry if the engine behind could not handle the wonders like they were build in cs1.
And this work will indeed be a tremendous work, almost a remake of CS2 , but that's the focus they should have , and if another company can help, why not, or if the team does it on he same engine does not matter. Because they already once they produced it on another engine with cs1 , so why would they not be able to solve this issues with the current engine, or with a port to another engine.
All other can stay as it has potential that sill not fully showed due to the graphic consumption. I think that we all, and players that turned away would be back in no while, if the engine and game could run on a normal grapic card with normal cpu usage, at having cities with millions of people or cities of then thousand with unknwon graphical atmospere sculpted through players designs and have cs series back bringing ideas for real cities planning.
because that's why we play the game, to build our Dream and show it should be , as in real world we see other things.
So developers, cs2 teams, and we, do not give up. We still believe in the potential, amd although we were mad, angry , once u will have solved it, we will praise you again. Because u were the gods that gives as a building tool once, and gods can make thing right and give us hope.

 

[illuminaut]

I bought for 1000€ new HW. just to notice it was not sufficient and so as a player I was mad , angry , frustrated and feared because my pc still blows on fans when playing CS2.
The only thing that now can be done to save the game is solve the GRAPHiC issues , and engine.

You're doing something wrong either with how you spent the 1000€ or your graphic settings. My Ryzen 5/4070 handles the game just fine. It was a mess on launch but they've come a long way since.

because the simulation on economics and game play is the best someone ever produced, to be almost real.

you should read the rest of the forum. Not so many complaints anymore about the performance, but lots of complaints about the simulation.

So my advise would be, do not launch patch, do not launch console, do not any DLC, but build on solving he GPU. Because my thought is that the editor will not released until this graphic challenges are solved. Releasing the editor would cause even more players to be angry if the engine behind could not handle the wonders like they were build in cs1.

Hard disagree. They need to continue to optimize and fine-tune, not rebuild the graphics engine. What you're suggesting is to please the not-very-large group of people who want to play on older or cheap hardware at maximum settings. By all means, they should keep tweaking performance (and also make it way easier to understand the settings and how to change them), but that must happen in parallel.

I think that we all, and players that turned away would be back in no while, if the engine and game could run on a normal grapic card with normal cpu usage, at having cities with millions of people

Sure, running a city with millions of people on a laptop with the built-in graphics card sounds like a dream, but let's not live in dreamland.