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Air Changes | Developer Corner

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Hey Everyone! I am back this week to talk to you a bit about some changes we are making to air management and combat. The first thing I want to get out of the way is that this is not a “Man the Guns” style rework of combat and management systems. Our focus on air changes have mostly revolved around quality of life and balance changes to existing systems, while largely maintaining the structures people are familiar with (with a couple of exceptions). So, let's get into it!

Starting off with a QoL change I am very happy about: Simplified Wing Deployment. Anyone who has experience with managing air wings probably has some complaints about how deploying wings works. The live system requires three clicks in the best case (four if you include choosing a base) to deploy a single wing into an empty airbase. In the worst case this requires more clicks and doing some math for creating a large wing that can later be divided evenly. Now, we are adding quick deploy buttons to the air base UI to allow deployment of a wing in a single click. We are also keeping the old deployment menu for more advanced deployment options. Also, in this menu, we have simplified the flow for deploying single and multiple wings at once.

WIP UI design of simplified wing deployment tools. Note the art style here is not indicative of a change in art direction for our UI. In the first image we see the setup that can be done to select fast deploy options from any air base.
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In the second Image we see the newer version of quick deploy within the advanced deployment menu. You now have a set of filters to only show planes of a specific type, and you can now set the reinforce preference on all of the wings you are about to deploy, or individual ones.



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One of the most visible changes to air management, and hopefully a big quality of life improvement for most people, is the addition of Air Groups. The first thing I want to say is this is not Army Groups or Fleets. For now, and the foreseeable future, we are not adding Air Marshals or any sort of mechanical impact to using Air Groups. Air Groups are an organizational structure and nothing more. What it will do is enable the grouping and selection of multiple air wings across multiple locations bases for easier management. These groups will be displayed when in the air map mode so that you do not have to hunt down your wings on the map when you want to interact with them.

A very much WIP view of our current air groups
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Of the changes we are making, one of the most notable is moving to standardized/fixed wing sizes. This change comes with a loss of flexibility in some situations and makes managing smaller numbers of airplanes a bit more complicated. However, I think that real air combat in HoI4 is measured in thousands of airplanes and not dozens. We are currently looking at 100 sized wings for most aircraft, with size 10 wings for a few specific equipment types(scout plans, CV planes, ect). This allows us to streamline wing deployment and some other management stuff such as not having AI take up weird percentages of air bases. It also makes balance easier and fixes a few exploit cases. This may take some getting used to but I feel it improves the overall experience of managing large numbers of aircraft.

The final change I want to discuss today is an addition to the combat system. We are adding a new mechanic for intercepting planes in regions enroute to their target. In most cases, engaging planes in their target region will still be most effective. But in others, such as when range is a factor, the region being crossed has a bunch of engagement and spotting bonuses, and in a few other cases leaning into combat in an intermediary region can be a good idea.

Beyond these more concrete changes we are doing a balance pass on existing air combat mechanics. A lot of this is still too WIP to discuss, but I would like to highlight one of our objectives which is decoupling agility and speed with more impact given to speed in later air superiority fighter designs, but more on that at a later date.

As always, I wish you all the best and don't hesitate to tell us how these changes make you feel.

Until next time o7
 
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FAQ + Dev Replies

Any reworks for aces? Maybe an air wing could have up to 5 aces (all movable between air wings of the same plane type). There were 2,500 German aces and 1,200 US aces throughout the war. Plan amounts in the game are much lower than in reality so maybe aces can be scaled down as well to match it (hence up to 5 per wing of 100).

Fixed wing size == more wings == more aces overall.

Cadwalender said:
Could you take a look at the range circles for aircraft, for example in the western US say Nevada, aircraft are able to to fly much farther in one direction than another. I would think the airport would be in the middle of the range circle, but for some airports that is not the case.

This is something we considered, but the technical cost to do so significantly outstripped the value. It is worth mentioning here that we have split up some of the larger strategic regions into smaller ones in order to lessen the impact of this effect.

Elouda said:
I certainly hope the wing size settings are moddable, preferably by archetype. Sizes of 10 just doesnt work to represent historical carriers in detail, would have to use sizes of 2 or something.

Also, any hopes we could get ranges that take map projection into account, instead of being the same regardless of latitude?

Wing sizes will be moddable.

WallAcer said:
I am very happy to see the dev team listening to the playerbase feedback and trying to solve one of the undoubtedly most important issues with the game currently.

With this opportunity im curious if other improvements to how air works will be made, and have compiled below a short list of ideas & questions:

1. Will it still be possible to have non-fixed airwing sizes for mods? hopefully you will find a way to make the system work with minimum airwing size of 1 to allow the extra flexibility for the playerbase that wants it.

This is not currently planned, but the fixed wing size will be moddable.

WallAcer said:
2. With some changes to AI mentioned, will it also be possible to add AI strategies regarding air in the future?

We are adding several.

WallAcer said:
3. Is expanding the set of aircraft attributes being considered? Possible addition of stats like altitude/rate of climb for example.

More on this soon.

WallAcer said:
4. Are there any plans to change the way plane ranges are calculated from the center of the state instead of airbase location?

As above; no.

WallAcer said:
6. Also regarding range, earth is a globe and hoi4 map is not, which is fine in some cases but breaks down at very long ranges or high latitudes. Having the ranges be corrected by latitude would be possible and a welcome change, at the very least to more modern mods for hoi4 in the world of missiles and long range bombers

We get this question in several areas of interest. While I understand the desire (imperator projection best projection), it is not an economical tech decision at this point.

WallAcer said:
9. Will there be a info screen for each air theatre (much like the army one) with losses and kills, bombing damage etc... ? it would provide a very good overview of said stats instead of clicking on each air region and adding up all the stats.

No, but more on this soon.

wisecat said:
Does this mean that if I have 100% control over all possible routes to target I can leave the target region itself uncovered?

Not necessarily. Interception is not a hard blocker, it will disrupt and cause casualties to planes passing through a region. At some point it may become too costly to continue flying through any given region, but this rightly exaggerates the need to fight over intermediary locations as well as the destination point.


Has the introduction of intercepting the planes en route actually stopped the current whack-a-mole-ness of air combat in your test games?

This, combined with an updated AI plane commitment & evaluation system mean you should see a lot less ping-ponging or instant reactions. There is a need to control the route to the target as well as the skies above it.
 
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I like most of the stuff here, mostly being able to intercept planes en route, not sure how I feel about standardized wing sizes though.
 
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In 2020, it was mentioned about having a country pack while the main team is working on the next big update. Are these going to continue to be made? It was mentioned in the intital post in September, that the BftB pack was created while the main team was working on La Résistance. Was a similar DLC created while the team was working on No Step Back?

Thanks
 
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Good, but we need same thing for land combat. Corps level organizational structure is must have, division-level gives too much units to micro them effectively.
 
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Has the introduction of intercepting the planes en route actually stopped the current whack-a-mole-ness of air combat in your test games?
 
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All I want is a fix for this:


(Assuming the described AI bug still exists, that is.)
 
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Has the introduction of intercepting the planes en route actually stopped the current whack-a-mole-ness of air combat in your test games?

This, combined with an updated AI plane commitment & evaluation system mean you should see a lot less ping-ponging or instant reactions. There is a need to control the route to the target as well as the skies above it.
 
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If airwings are going to be reworked anyway could some sort of display added where you can see the “weight” of paratrooper divisions or the carrying capacity of transport plane wings? I tend to heavily use para’s but whenever I assign transports I just guess how many I need to mixed results. I think it’d be convenient that when an airdrop plan is made you could see the required transport requirements like with a naval invasion.

Anyway keep up the good work and looking forward to more news in the future
 
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Can you clone/divide air groups and tie them to armies?

Can you create a squadron with 0 planes but a defined desired number of planes, so you can get them tied into your network while production catches up?

If airwings are going to be reworked anyway could some sort of display added where you can see the “weight” of paratrooper divisions or the carrying capacity of transport plane wings? I tend to heavily use para’s but whenever I assign transports I just guess how many I need to mixed results. I think it’d be convenient that when an airdrop plan is made you could see the required transport requirements like with a naval invasion.

Anyway keep up the good work and looking forward to more news in the future

This could also be handled through the same system that ties Convoys to naval invasions.
 
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And what about an extra pool for trained pilots? For me, general improvements of air combat seem nice enough, though an extra manpower pool for pilots could introduce some more realism into the game (looking at you Germany/Japan) and others have asked for it. Is this on the table this time around?
 
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It would be awesome if at the quick deploy, you could ctrl + click to immediately create five air wings with 100 planes of the same type immediately. Shift + click for ten. Will save clicks for larger nations and the end game!

Also, the possibility to add the best available aces to all air wings in a region in some way would be much appreciated! It gets rather clicky when you have 10 000+ airplanes.

This one might be tricky though, but if you supplement it with right click on the "ace heart" to assign the highest ranked ace automatically to that wing, it will reduce clicks even when you don't want to assign every wing in a region like in my example above.
 
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Interesting.

How will this fixed air wing size affect modded units such as small aircraft carriers ?

I used escort carriers with a deck size of only about 10, so that's one wing , but how would it decide the carrier composition ?
 
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However, I think that real air combat in HoI4 is measured in thousands of airplanes and not dozens.
This is one of my biggest issues of HoI4's air war. I shouldn't need to produce and deploy thousands of bombers to get an impact on the war. I'd love to see planes be a bit more powerful and pack more of punch so that you don't need to deploy so many to get an effect. Heck, looking up the Doolittle Raid, Dresden Bombing, and Rotterdam Bombing (some of more notable Air Bombings of the war) had, at most, nations deploy half the strength needed in HoI4 to achieve the effects that were desired. Strategic Bombing and Tactical Bombing really need to be more impactful and devestating. As I've noted above, I shouldn't need to deploy thousands of planes simply start to see an effect.

If this is the direction that HoI4 is moving, these smaller squadrons need to be effective enough on their own to have impact so that there is value for investing in the Air War.

One of the most visible changes to air management, and hopefully a big quality of life improvement for most people, is the addition of Air Groups.
Nice. This will really help.

For now, and the foreseeable future, we are not adding Air Marshals or any sort of mechanical impact to using Air Groups

Disappointing. Was hoping we would get Air Marshals later into development of the game, especially for an Italy DLC.

In 2020, it was mentioned about having a country pack while the main team is working on the next big update. Are these going to continue to be made? It was mentioned in the intital post in September, that the BftB pack was created while the main team was working on La Résistance. Was a similar DLC created while the team was working on No Step Back?

Thanks

Agreed. Love to hear from that team on what we have coming for a country pack, if anything. I loved the idea to have a dedicated team for country packs as BftB was awsome.
 
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When I'm trying to add in new planes, will I be able to type in an actual number or will there continue to be a slider?
 
Any reworks for aces? Maybe an air wing could have up to 5 aces (all movable between air wings of the same plane type). There were 2,500 German aces and 1,200 US aces throughout the war. Plan amounts in the game are much lower than in reality so maybe aces can be scaled down as well to match it (hence up to 5 per wing of 100).
 
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real air combat in HoI4 is measured in thousands of airplanes and not dozens

I have a concern here, about modelling some of the earlier air battles in the war.

Specifically, the Winter War where the Finnish air force was significantly outnumbered but was able to hold its own.

And one of the iconic campaigns, the Battle of Britain, at the most intense, involved hundreds, not thousands of aircraft in the air simultaneously.

And RAF Bomber Command was only ever able to field just over 1000 heavies for any given night.

My concern is that mechanics that favour campaigns with thousands of aircraft might drastically change the ability of the game to model (model, not simulate) historical and close-alt-historical settings.
 
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