• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Air Changes | Developer Corner

Steam Event Header (1920x622).png


Hey Everyone! I am back this week to talk to you a bit about some changes we are making to air management and combat. The first thing I want to get out of the way is that this is not a “Man the Guns” style rework of combat and management systems. Our focus on air changes have mostly revolved around quality of life and balance changes to existing systems, while largely maintaining the structures people are familiar with (with a couple of exceptions). So, let's get into it!

Starting off with a QoL change I am very happy about: Simplified Wing Deployment. Anyone who has experience with managing air wings probably has some complaints about how deploying wings works. The live system requires three clicks in the best case (four if you include choosing a base) to deploy a single wing into an empty airbase. In the worst case this requires more clicks and doing some math for creating a large wing that can later be divided evenly. Now, we are adding quick deploy buttons to the air base UI to allow deployment of a wing in a single click. We are also keeping the old deployment menu for more advanced deployment options. Also, in this menu, we have simplified the flow for deploying single and multiple wings at once.

WIP UI design of simplified wing deployment tools. Note the art style here is not indicative of a change in art direction for our UI. In the first image we see the setup that can be done to select fast deploy options from any air base.
image2.png



In the second Image we see the newer version of quick deploy within the advanced deployment menu. You now have a set of filters to only show planes of a specific type, and you can now set the reinforce preference on all of the wings you are about to deploy, or individual ones.



image1.png


One of the most visible changes to air management, and hopefully a big quality of life improvement for most people, is the addition of Air Groups. The first thing I want to say is this is not Army Groups or Fleets. For now, and the foreseeable future, we are not adding Air Marshals or any sort of mechanical impact to using Air Groups. Air Groups are an organizational structure and nothing more. What it will do is enable the grouping and selection of multiple air wings across multiple locations bases for easier management. These groups will be displayed when in the air map mode so that you do not have to hunt down your wings on the map when you want to interact with them.

A very much WIP view of our current air groups
image3.png


Of the changes we are making, one of the most notable is moving to standardized/fixed wing sizes. This change comes with a loss of flexibility in some situations and makes managing smaller numbers of airplanes a bit more complicated. However, I think that real air combat in HoI4 is measured in thousands of airplanes and not dozens. We are currently looking at 100 sized wings for most aircraft, with size 10 wings for a few specific equipment types(scout plans, CV planes, ect). This allows us to streamline wing deployment and some other management stuff such as not having AI take up weird percentages of air bases. It also makes balance easier and fixes a few exploit cases. This may take some getting used to but I feel it improves the overall experience of managing large numbers of aircraft.

The final change I want to discuss today is an addition to the combat system. We are adding a new mechanic for intercepting planes in regions enroute to their target. In most cases, engaging planes in their target region will still be most effective. But in others, such as when range is a factor, the region being crossed has a bunch of engagement and spotting bonuses, and in a few other cases leaning into combat in an intermediary region can be a good idea.

Beyond these more concrete changes we are doing a balance pass on existing air combat mechanics. A lot of this is still too WIP to discuss, but I would like to highlight one of our objectives which is decoupling agility and speed with more impact given to speed in later air superiority fighter designs, but more on that at a later date.

As always, I wish you all the best and don't hesitate to tell us how these changes make you feel.

Until next time o7
 
  • 135Like
  • 64Love
  • 17
  • 10
  • 7
Reactions:
Changes to interception, and the decoupling of agility with speed sounds good.
Had to do a double-take when scanning the air wing names. Humbly request that the portrait pool for fighter or CAS pilots gets to include one of a grinning Lemmy in a flying helmet.
 
Still crossing fingers for an air designer, but this all looks great. I love that we can intercept planes en-route to their target now. Standardized wing sizes was unexpected, but probably for the best, imo.
 
  • 7Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Could you take a look at the range circles for aircraft, for example in the western US say Nevada, aircraft are able to to fly much farther in one direction than another. I would think the airport would be in the middle of the range circle, but for some airports that is not the case.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Nice to see you looking into this, after you've surprised us with the peace conferences already :)

How will the new wing size affect volunteers? Are there already some ideas/plans about this?

Will I still be able as a smaller country to send 12 CAS to gather air exp for example?
 
  • 2Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I certainly hope the wing size settings are moddable, preferably by archetype. Sizes of 10 just doesnt work to represent historical carriers in detail, would have to use sizes of 2 or something.

Also, any hopes we could get ranges that take map projection into account, instead of being the same regardless of latitude?
 
  • 5
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I really like alot of these changes, though too bad no air marshals.

Will the 100 plane cap remain in affect for volunteer forces? Right now I like to send 50 Fighters and 50 Bombers, but that won't be possible in the new system.*

*I know you can deploy more, but only if you have airbases outside the warzone like say flying from France/Morocco into Spain
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
The plane type filter is something I was waiting for for a long time, happy we are getting it. Since we're talking about air combat, maybe also look into the assigned armies air wings? Sometimes they'll just stop their mission and you won't be notified of that. Also I don't know how this would be implemented but, maybe create a setting for offensive and defensive air wings? For example, when invading Poland and you having assigned air wings to armies, the air wings will stay in german air because that's where the armies are, but when attacking they won't support the armies because the attack happens in the polish air zone.
 
  • 2Like
Reactions:
I am very happy to see the dev team listening to the playerbase feedback and trying to solve one of the undoubtedly most important issues with the game currently.

With this opportunity im curious if other improvements to how air works will be made, and have compiled below a short list of ideas & questions:

1. Will it still be possible to have non-fixed airwing sizes for mods? hopefully you will find a way to make the system work with minimum airwing size of 1 to allow the extra flexibility for the playerbase that wants it.

2. With some changes to AI mentioned, will it also be possible to add AI strategies regarding air in the future?

3. Is expanding the set of aircraft attributes being considered? Possible addition of stats like altitude/rate of climb for example.

4. Are there any plans to change the way plane ranges are calculated from the center of the state instead of airbase location?

5. Similarly regarding range, is adding bonuses to aircraft performing missions at a smaller range compared to their max being considered? ie, bombers can carry more payload and fighters are lighter due to the lower fuel, and have lower fuel consumption.

6. Also regarding range, earth is a globe and hoi4 map is not, which is fine in some cases but breaks down at very long ranges or high latitudes. Having the ranges be corrected by latitude would be possible and a welcome change, at the very least to more modern mods for hoi4 in the world of missiles and long range bombers

7. It would be nice if aircraft also had working values for supply use (so a B-17 doesnt use the same supply as a light fighter) and possibly also values for recon and transport capacity. the latter could be neatly be tied to paratrooper division "weight" to determine the number of required planes for a paradrop

8. Making a modifier like "ground_attack_factor" work on province-level (terrain) would bring a lot of balance to CAS as it could be made less effective in forests and cities

9. Will there be a info screen for each air theatre (much like the army one) with losses and kills, bombing damage etc... ? it would provide a very good overview of said stats instead of clicking on each air region and adding up all the stats.
 
  • 12Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
This is a nice QOL change. Are there no plans for plane modules? Sort of like drop tanks or rockets?

It's kind of weird that they are the only branch of vehicles that don't get any modules compared to tanks and ships.
 
  • 5Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Are we gonna have a change in the way that mission efficiency works? I mean, will a plane still have to cover all the air zone to achieve high mission efficiency?
I would like to know this, too. It's ridiculous how a plane gets a huge penalty when operating against targets in the next province because it happens to be in an air region it doesn't have the range to cover completely.

Honestly, I'm still wondering if the best option isn't to remove air bases altogether and just attach air wings directly to armies and army groups (and possibly cities). War in the East has mobile air wings that are counters on the map, and I guess they just make new air fields (remember, WWII air fields could be something as simple as an open field where the planes touched down right on the grass) when you move them to a new place.
 
  • 6
  • 3Like
  • 2
Reactions:
Finally no more teleporting planes! This is very good news.

Not so sure about fixed wing sizes: for example what happens if I capture 9 recon planes as spoils of war? Will I be unable to use them?
If you are set on them - please make the numbers moddable - some mods make planes much more expensive than vanilla game.

Air Groups - will they cover more than one "air region"?
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
Speaking of air changes, will there be any changes to the way Carrier aircraft operate?

Currently, Carriers are not cost-effective compared to other ships because Carrier Navs take off at 4AM, 12PM and 8PM GMT. This means in the timezones where naval battle tend to happen, this is night 2/3 of the time and so don't attack any ships. However, they still get shot down by enemy fighters. This effectively reduces the Carrier's damage by 2/3.

This is in addition to requiring support from military factories, being nullified by land based air, time-consuming additional research, being one of the most expensive ships in the game, and requiring dedicated doctrine and admiral traits to nullify sortie efficiency penalties.
 
  • 5Like
  • 2
  • 2
Reactions:
This, combined with an updated AI plane commitment & evaluation system mean you should see a lot less ping-ponging or instant reactions. There is a need to control the route to the target as well as the skies above it.

Does this mean that if I have 100% control over all possible routes to target I can leave the target region itself uncovered?
 
  • 5Like
Reactions:
These changes don't seem to add much to the game. A rigid number of planes in the wing makes no sense. Only if there is something faster, we lose flexibility. Why should it be faster, anyway?
 
  • 9
  • 4
Reactions:
I'd like to ask, with this rework of Air warfare, will there be a focus/decision for allied nations to deploy volunteer airwings from occupied countries? e.g. Polish and Czechoslovak Airwings in France and later on in Britain which served during blitz on Britain.

Edit: Also wanted to ask about one more thing. Commanders for air units. Will we assign airwings to generals? What trait/perks can we expect, etc.
 
Last edited:
Very welcomed changes. A few questions though :

1) The max size of wings to 100 is very good to prevent CAS/Bombers deathstack which exploits engagement mechanics. but, how will it work for Carriers ? Imagine a 40 deckspace carrier with +10% deck space bonus, it would make the design have 44 slots. If only increments of 10s, how will it work ?

2) Imagine strat bombers going from London to Berlin, and back. Can german interceptors engage the bombers when they go *and* while they return ? Can a UK player close some airspaces to force bombers to go via the sea instead of going via France, thus decreasing chances of being intercepted/shot down by AA ?

3) Any plane range rework planned ? The range of Tac 1's is too OP IMHO

4) Do you guys intent to stop calculating ranges based on distance from center of the zone ? It feels weird to be more effective when an airport is closer to the center of the zone, rather than closer to the frontline...

5) Can some stats be created to model air night fighting ? Like night-fighting efficiency ? Coupled with air-designer, it would make the creation of night fighters an interesting gameplay
 
  • 6Like
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
Are we gonna get a new mission/ a change to CAS and Tac Bombers so they can finally attack Ground Targets without Ground Combat going on? Not being able to preemptively damage units before your ground troops attack them feels so sad and takes a lot of interesting strategic and tactical choices away as well as making air way less interesting than it could be.
 
  • 4
  • 2Like
Reactions:
Please please please rework home defence for planes - just let me assign planes to a garrison order and let them figure out the best way to defend against enemy bombers rather than the cat and mouse required now
 
  • 12Like
  • 5
  • 1
Reactions: