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Air Changes | Developer Corner

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Hey Everyone! I am back this week to talk to you a bit about some changes we are making to air management and combat. The first thing I want to get out of the way is that this is not a “Man the Guns” style rework of combat and management systems. Our focus on air changes have mostly revolved around quality of life and balance changes to existing systems, while largely maintaining the structures people are familiar with (with a couple of exceptions). So, let's get into it!

Starting off with a QoL change I am very happy about: Simplified Wing Deployment. Anyone who has experience with managing air wings probably has some complaints about how deploying wings works. The live system requires three clicks in the best case (four if you include choosing a base) to deploy a single wing into an empty airbase. In the worst case this requires more clicks and doing some math for creating a large wing that can later be divided evenly. Now, we are adding quick deploy buttons to the air base UI to allow deployment of a wing in a single click. We are also keeping the old deployment menu for more advanced deployment options. Also, in this menu, we have simplified the flow for deploying single and multiple wings at once.

WIP UI design of simplified wing deployment tools. Note the art style here is not indicative of a change in art direction for our UI. In the first image we see the setup that can be done to select fast deploy options from any air base.
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In the second Image we see the newer version of quick deploy within the advanced deployment menu. You now have a set of filters to only show planes of a specific type, and you can now set the reinforce preference on all of the wings you are about to deploy, or individual ones.



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One of the most visible changes to air management, and hopefully a big quality of life improvement for most people, is the addition of Air Groups. The first thing I want to say is this is not Army Groups or Fleets. For now, and the foreseeable future, we are not adding Air Marshals or any sort of mechanical impact to using Air Groups. Air Groups are an organizational structure and nothing more. What it will do is enable the grouping and selection of multiple air wings across multiple locations bases for easier management. These groups will be displayed when in the air map mode so that you do not have to hunt down your wings on the map when you want to interact with them.

A very much WIP view of our current air groups
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Of the changes we are making, one of the most notable is moving to standardized/fixed wing sizes. This change comes with a loss of flexibility in some situations and makes managing smaller numbers of airplanes a bit more complicated. However, I think that real air combat in HoI4 is measured in thousands of airplanes and not dozens. We are currently looking at 100 sized wings for most aircraft, with size 10 wings for a few specific equipment types(scout plans, CV planes, ect). This allows us to streamline wing deployment and some other management stuff such as not having AI take up weird percentages of air bases. It also makes balance easier and fixes a few exploit cases. This may take some getting used to but I feel it improves the overall experience of managing large numbers of aircraft.

The final change I want to discuss today is an addition to the combat system. We are adding a new mechanic for intercepting planes in regions enroute to their target. In most cases, engaging planes in their target region will still be most effective. But in others, such as when range is a factor, the region being crossed has a bunch of engagement and spotting bonuses, and in a few other cases leaning into combat in an intermediary region can be a good idea.

Beyond these more concrete changes we are doing a balance pass on existing air combat mechanics. A lot of this is still too WIP to discuss, but I would like to highlight one of our objectives which is decoupling agility and speed with more impact given to speed in later air superiority fighter designs, but more on that at a later date.

As always, I wish you all the best and don't hesitate to tell us how these changes make you feel.

Until next time o7
 
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We are currently looking at 100 sized wings for most aircraft, with size 10 wings for a few specific equipment types(scout plans, CV planes, ect).
Does this mean that there are only going to be two size settings hardcoded in and you can change them in the defines or something, or will modders be able to set individual wing sizes per plane type? The latter would be pretty desirable for some mods that really like flavor/order of battle detail.
 
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Yeah, i agree with other posters and believe the quantity of airplanes should definetly be dialed down by a factor of 10.

Or ideally a pool of pilots will be introduced as this was the main limiting factor historically.
 
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good in this air rework some air command system will be inserted. One of the great absences in this game that was present in other previous installments of the game
 
I've been waiting for this announcement and I have to say it's very welcome indeed.

Will there be a slight time delay as aircraft transit one region to bomb the next? To reflect travel time? This would give a heads up that bombers are coming through to bomb 'somewhere' but you don't know exactly where. I think it would as the first region could damage/destroy or disrupt significant bombers to reduce the attack in the next region. And have another pop at them on the way home of course.
 
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The final change I want to discuss today is an addition to the combat system. We are adding a new mechanic for intercepting planes in regions enroute to their target. In most cases, engaging planes in their target region will still be most effective. But in others, such as when range is a factor, the region being crossed has a bunch of engagement and spotting bonuses, and in a few other cases leaning into combat in an intermediary region can be a good idea.

Will State AA and Radar also be a factor in intermediary regions?
 
The Aces are good and you dont get much of them. In all my Gameplays i Played Nations at War I got 6 or 7 with the Airfights of them in full Numbers for Bombers, Fighters etc. to the 1 (if you are lucky) you have from beginning on.

If you take atm Aces instead of the Other Thing, naturally you get a lot from them.

But thats the atm. Status from 1.00 to 1.11.11. We will see what have changed in the fully R & D as well as all other Parts for the Airforce when the new Version is more advanced, get shown in Twitch / Youtube and most important is playable for us Hoi 4-Fans.

Naturaly such an big Change has in some Parts Advantages in other Parts Disadvantages. The full Standard-Management [Airports, Form Wings, Attack-Orders and similar] on the Geoscape is clear, but more important for me is the R & D-Part to make the Planes like Tanks / Ships with Refits (better MGs, Fuel-Tanks, Structure etc.) or is still the 08/15-Scrap from the Beginning there [like it is now] with EXP-Burning for nothing.
 
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I know you said there would be no Air Marshalls in the foreseeable future, but have you considered the ability to promote Aces to become air advisors, like how you can do the same for generals/field marshalls and admirals for the army and navy respectively? Aside from allowing a way to get more air advisors like how you can get more land and navy advisors, it would also simulate the dilemma between keeping your Aces in combat, getting combat bonuses but risking their death, vs retiring them so they can instead teach your other pilots(give air experience) and give passive bonuses.
We were initially planning to work aces into the promotion structure but ran into issues with scope and how to make aces exactly fit into something that they currently don't. What I mean is that there are not enough types of aces compared to say relevant air advisor types. This would mean either simplifying the number of air advisor jobs or changing aces to fit the advisory roles. Beyond that, there is the aspect of leveling as an advisor which is linked to field command level in other cases. Again, this would be a lot of time spent reworking something to achieve a solution that doesn't mesh well with the game's other structures and presentation paradigms.

In the future, we may have time to expand air command and advisors more, but for now, we thought everyone would be better served building something that solves QoL and management issues. Later on down the road, if time allows, we can build upon a more solid base that we create here.
 
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Wouldn't size 96, and size 12 wings be more realistic?
That depends on nationality, really. Squadron sizes can be 8, 9, 12, 15, 16, 18 or 24 aircraft. Unfortunately, if you combine the factors to get a "one size fits all" you get:

3 x 3 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 5 = 720, which is rather large...
 
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My suggestion to "fix" air missions would be:

1. Abandon air regions and base only on states and sea regions. This would make air combat more interesting as you'd be able to assign your planes to areas out of range for enemy planes, especially on large fronts like Siberia. This would also make the small airforce more meaningful.
2. Make it possible to assign planes to more than one region at once (that'd be required if the point above is met). It's very annoying to move your planes and reassign them to proper regions constantly. Imagine playing Poland in '39 where you want to push through the Pomerania but keep defending on the south. Currently, you have to split your air wings and if you don't have a big airforce it's guaranteed you will lose air superiority in both regions.
3. Abandon the "Ground attack" value and split it into the soft attack and hard attack, just like it was in HOI3. This would make TAC bombers better for attacking infantry and CAS for tanks and mechanized units/trains.
4. Make it possible to perform ground strike missions anytime, even if there is no ongoing land combat (again, just like in HOI3).
5. Consider adding a "combat width" for smaller air regions to avoid AI deathstacking their fighters on air superiority missions.

You are guys doing great work! Can't wait to play the new DLC :)
 
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dynamic wing sizes create more issues than just capping upper bounds solves
Hmm, it has just struck me that there are issues with fixed sizes, too. Consider when moving aircraft between wings, for example to replenish a damaged wing from a training unit instead of with raw crews. How will that work with fixed sizes? Or when adding a new model of aircraft to an established wing that is designated "included variants only" in order to add the new variant to the wing's pool of potential replacements - how will that work without dynamic wing size?

My suggestion to "fix" air missions would be:

1. Abandon air regions and base only on states and sea regions. This would make air combat more interesting as you'd be able to assign your planes to areas out of range for enemy planes, especially on large fronts like Siberia. This would also make the small airforce more meaningful.
That can already be done in a mod, and it might be better as mod territory, to be honest. Of course, your point 2 would be beyond useful for just such a mod!
 
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Ah I understand what you Devs wanna do. Mix the Airwings like it was in Real. So that you get bigger ones with Bombers, Long-Range-Fighters, Fighters, CAS, Recon and similar seperated in Squadrons or so.

Nice Idea. Before that I seperated my Airforce in several smaller Parts (like 20 CAS, Fighters, Bombers) in single Squads with about 25 to 30 Squads each.
 
It would be more realistic to increase supply usage of air wings heavily, because they needed a lot, especially bombers. Now you can put many planes on a convoy raided island, just using the local supply.
 
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That depends on nationality, really. Squadron sizes can be 8, 9, 12, 15, 16, 18 or 24 aircraft. Unfortunately, if you combine the factors to get a "one size fits all" you get:

3 x 3 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 2 x 5 = 720, which is rather large...
Sorry for replying to myself, but this sparks an idea:
  1. Set air wing sizes by country, in the oob or country file, according to typical historical practice. Maybe have this adjustable in the air doctrine/staff area.
  2. Set the airbase size multiplier to 72, for a maximum airbase size of 720. This fits with most of the historical squadron/wing sizes, especially when size 2 (capacity 144) is used.
 
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It is disappointing that so far no you're interested to implement some air command, when it should be natural and quite affordable to implement because there is already something similar in the other branches of the military
 
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The fixed wing size sounds really annoying for minor powers in particular, and for how I like (not to have to) play general. I can already feel myself fighting this system to get the deployments I want, which is never a fun way for a game to demand you play it. I guess it'll be a lot of micromanaging reinforcement priority and having to move deployments around on the fly for minor powers?

It sounds like it'd be nice for majors most of the time, but there's plenty of fun to be had in HoI4 that isn't playing as a major, in both mods and vanilla. If anything, I find playing as a country with more limited resources more fun and this sounds like it'll make that a massive chore. I'd love to be convinced otherwise. I'd much rather just have a template system with presets that I can modify than "air wings are now always and forever this size, and you can't ever change it".
 
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Of the changes we are making, one of the most notable is moving to standardized/fixed wing sizes. This change comes with a loss of flexibility in some situations and makes managing smaller numbers of airplanes a bit more complicated.

We are currently looking at 100 sized wings for most aircraft, with size 10 wings for a few specific equipment types(scout plans, CV planes, etc). This allows us to streamline wing deployment and some other management stuff such as not having AI take up weird percentages of air bases.


Like others have commented, I'm worried how these standardized air wing sizes of 100 planes will work for minor nations, or any nation with limited fuel resources. When I'm playing the USSR or UK, I make all my air wings have 100 planes for the same ease-of-management reasons you mention.

But, if I'm playing a Baltic or Balkan country, I might not have the planes to put 100 bombers over a single zone. Instead I might only want to put 50 or 25 in the air in that zone. Plus, 100 bombers also suck up a lot of fuel, which is a precious resource if you have to trade for fuel by sea while at war. I'm hoping that the phrase "makes managing smaller numbers of airplanes a bit more complicated" is just that, and doesn't make small wings impossible.

Other than this, I really like the changes proposed in this dev diary.
 
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