Bloodlines 2 - Game Update

[Splorghley]

As someone who has been fairly critical of parts of this game's development, I respect this. Delaying a game to get it right is always better than rushing out some hot mess.

I also agree with the consensus here that calling the game Bloodlines 2 is going to bring in hefty expectations that the game may prove ill equipped to meet. Calling the game something else will help reset expectations, and give the game a better chance at being reviewed on its own terms. Name recognition isn't going to make up for the unnecessary hit to reviews caused by inviting a comparison to a cult classic, nor does it even seem necessary in terms of branding - no Bloodlines 1 fan is somehow going to miss a new mainline VtM action-adventure title.

It may also serve as a useful punctuation mark in terms of the marketing, distancing the actual game release from six years of bad press. If I were Paradox I'd change the name, launch a few ads once there's more gameplay to show off, and basically treat this as a new title. 'VtM: Phoenix', 'rebirthed in blood', etc etc. It's a promotional campaign that basically writes itself.

 

[Ratstranger]

They needed help (especially programmer/technical/engine help), not an axe.

Studio situation with Bloodlines 2 are very complicated.

The Chinese Room is a legit game developer. "Still Wakes the Deep" is a brilliant game.

Hardsuit Labs were.... shady as hell. The only game they did themselves (I think they worked as asssistants on some products) is a super obscure PvP shooter from 2012 or something.

I got a feeling Paradox leadership decided to by essentially dead empty shell of a company, sprinkle it with names and talent like Brian Mitsoda and hope it will work but be super cheap. I had a strong feeling this will not work from get go and I was correct.

Problem with TCR is they have a little experience doing action/rpg. Their games are mostly adventure/'walking simulator" (not sayting this as an insult, it's an established genre term).

RPGs are complex genre with a lots of moving details. Often first RPG from new studio in this field is not terrible but have a lot of issues. Vampyr from Don't Nod s a good example. it's not a bad game, from narrative point of view a really good one, but not great action RPG.

So I kind of understand why devs are triying to reduce ammount of things which could drag the game down if they are not succesfull. Though the end product will, of course, suffer from it.

 

[Zamchaos7853]

They needed help (especially programmer/technical/engine help), not an axe.

Their version of Bloodlines looked like a proper Bloodlines RPG game (yeah, I saw that old leaked gameplay from a dev build).

Character sheet, proper character creator, silent protagonist, deep dialogue options with skill/perk checks etc. I could clearly see Brian's and other Bloodlines 1 devs input too.

I suppose, if you like Dishonored or just want to play some casual action adventure game with vampire theme, TCR Bloodlines 2 will be fun for you.

It's just not a sequel that many old fans wanted.

In any case, we are stuck with that TCR Bloodlines 2, so hopefully they will use their available development time to at least bugfix and optimize the game and maybe add more RPG elements.

I would love to finally see a well optimized Unreal Engine 5 game .

As I understand it, they did try to get technical help and the person they hired said the game was not only unplayable but completely unsalvageable. They couldn't actually deliver what they promised and were nowhere near a complete game.

They wouldn't have axed it lightly because axing it meant losing the millions they already invested into the game, but they chose to do it anyway so it must have been a serious problem.

Paradox was going to cancel the game, but TCR made a pitch that convinced them to give it one more shot.

That's the story as I understand it, at least.

 

[Azar]

As I understand it, they did try to get technical help and the person they hired said the game was not only unplayable but completely unsalvageable. They couldn't actually deliver what they promised and were nowhere near a complete game.

Well not entirely unsalvageable. TCR got graphical assets, character and map design etc that they got to utilize in their version of BL2.

I also agree that Paradox wouldn't have axed the project lightly. Even though we don't know the exact details, HSL project was probably way too amateurish to actually work. Which is why Im so sad people keep getting stuck in the dream that never truly existed.

 

[Bobwoodword]

At this rate it seems like Paradox would have been wildly better off just remaking the OG. Then the only thing they would have needed to do is elevate the garbage combat to average and update graphics to contemporary standards and boom you got a guaranteed ROI with plenty of room for DLC if you wanted to milk it standard paradox style.

 

[Zamchaos7853]

At this rate it seems like Paradox would have been wildly better off just remaking the OG. Then the only thing they would have needed to do is elevate the garbage combat to average and update graphics to contemporary standards and boom you got a guaranteed ROI with plenty of room for DLC if you wanted to milk it standard paradox style.

As I understand it they don't own the rights to the original game, Activision still has it.

Besides, the action wasn't the only problem with it. It was a buggy mess and while its RPG elements were impressive at the time, they don't measure up to today's standards.

Keep in mind that Bloodlines 1 was very on the rails and the only meaningful choice was near the end when you decided which ending you want to go for and that won't go well in today's RPG market.

The first game commercially flopped even back then.

 

[Ratstranger]

Keep in mind that Bloodlines 1 was very on the rails and the only meaningful choice was near the end when you decided which ending you want to go for and that won't go well in today's RPG market.

The first game commercially flopped even back then.

That's not exactly true. Story was the same, but it's true for most RPGs, but you had options between fighting, sneaking, speaking, etc until certain moment after like 2/3 of the game when first speaking fell of, then sneaking and it was combat only. so not-combat builds viable for rest of the game suffered terribly.

Remake of original would actually be worthy endeavour in my opinion, but whoever will do this will have to tackle this issue. It's not impossible, Clan Mod did actually decent job on this. I played it and enjoyed it a lot.

Problem is, remake of VtM Bloodlines has nothing to do with second part with all it's woes. it's would be completely different game with full restart of developing again. Plus right issues, as said above.

 

[Thorqemada]

They should make a Bethesda and "remaster" VTMB the way Oblivion was "remastered".
And fix the late game of VTMB that devolves into a killing game instead of a RPG.

 

[acidsun]

The Vampire: the Masquerade IP is cursed.

Any dev team that attempts to develop a good game based on it falls victim to this curse and is destined to either going broke, giving up to exhaustion or releasing a bad game.

The only way to release a good Vampire the Masquerade game is by paying a price too high in blood and soul.

TCR is either postponing their inevitable demise or trying to find a way to break the curse.

 

[RagnarokCzD]

I realize that Chinese Room probably had to start from scratch

I thought that was officialy confirmed.


At very least i totally remember Outstar in WoD News confirming once that we should certainly see this as entirely new project unrelated to anything that was previously shown ...

//Edit:

The Vampire: the Masquerade IP is cursed.

Any dev team that attempts to develop a good game based on it falls victim to this curse and is destined to either going broke, giving up to exhaustion or releasing a bad game.

Is it really fair to say this?

I mean ...
Bloodhunt was great, it just come a bit late for its genre.
Those interactive novels from NY are freaking AWESOME!
And sure ... swansong exists, even tho it looks like major part of community would like to pretend otherwise ...

But beyond that ... we had two studios, of wich (from the little i heared, wich all sustains from rumors and potential halftruths) both simply bited more than they were able to handle ...

Plus there were outside world controversial influences.
I mean ... sure, i remember that there was official statement that kicking out Chris Avelone and deleting all his work had zero inpact on development ... but since it was so important to mention it, i find that hard to believe. :-/
Feel free to call me sceptic.

//Edit:

They should make a Bethesda and "remaster" VTMB the way Oblivion was "remastered".

That would indeed be nice ...
Sadly, most likely impossible, since VtM:B as far as i know is owned by ActiVision, wich is owned by Microsoft, wich are (from what i heared) especially not keen on sharing profits.

So im affraid such project would be more trouble than worth ...
Ergo this either never happens ... or will happen once one day Microsoft consume either World of Darkness, or maybe whole Paradox.

 

[Azar]

At very least i totally remember Outstar in WoD News confirming once that we should certainly see this as entirely new project unrelated to anything that was previously shown ...

Yeah, it was and it is. Unrelated.
But TCR got to re-use a lot of the graphical assets and map/character design from HSL's work.

 

[RagnarokCzD]

So its more like "technically not all of it, just like 99,9%"

 

[Pyoro]

I'd be very interesting to know how much exactly that helped or hindered the project.

I can imagine it's pretty nice to already have ready assets for the map and such, but I can also imagine that sometimes it feels like you squeeze your design into something that doesn't quite fit; or you feel like gotta make use of pre-defined characters like Lou as designing new ones is basically more sunken cost, and perhaps again that's as much a headache as it helps.
And then perhaps you get a little stuff you try to disentangle from what it originally was but maybe you don't quite know how, or what it was intended for, and so on, so you're sitting around dissecting and puzzling when you could be creating instead ...

... basically I want a book on Bloodlines 2 development from the beginning of the first project to the eventual release of BL2. It'd probably be one of the most interesting game development stories there is ^^

 

[Azar]

I'd be very interesting to know how much exactly that helped or hindered the project.

I think the devs said in interviews that HSL assets reduced the time it took to develop BL2. Don't quote me on that though.