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Hi there, you city builder aficionados! Once again it is the time for another exciting story from the pages of developer diaries. I am your humble host, Henkka, and I am here to talk about zoning. So, gather around by the fire and let your imagination fly...

Oh, and in case you missed the previous entry to the dev diaries, here it is: Dev Diary 1: Roads.

Basics of zoning (or "Why zoning instead of manually placing all buildings?")
If the roads are the bones of the city, then the zones are the meat around the bones. Very early on in the development process it was clear that we wanted the game to feature a zoning tool instead of placing the myriad of the regular buildings manually. With zoning the player's job is to rule where the different types of buildings appear but it is the citizens' (that is the game's) job to actually move in and build the new houses, shops and factories, all according to the different needs of the city. The player can determine what the city requires and when by using the RCI indicator in the GUI.

While discussing the possible ways to build a city a few ways emerged: placing buildings individually and zoning. While individual placing of buildings seemed interesting and in theory allowed the player to create the exact city they wanted it became clear that creating large cities would be difficult and cumbersome. The sheer amount of buildings needed to place would turn the game into an editor rather than a city builder. Also problems would arise with the needs of the city conflicting with the artistic visions of the player: the player would want to build 10 tenements in an area while the game calculated the city required only 3. Communicating this kind of information that is always changing as the game progresses would be impractical. And as the city grows and new technological levels are reached, the player would need to manually upgrade all the buildings in the city which in the end would mean going through thousands upon thousands of buildings.

Zoning on the other hand simulates more closely city planning on the higher level where the city planners lay down guidelines and rules for citizens and companies to work in. We decided that zoning is the way to go in a game of this scale. And clever city planners can take advantage of the various zoning tools and have more control over the zoneable buildings than just painting large areas if they so choose. For example, instead of zoning the full depth of the zone grid (4 cells) the player can zone thinner slices, like 2 cell deep areas, that spawn smaller building fitting the 2 cell deep restriction.

Zone types
Cities: Skylines features three main categories for zoning: residential, commercial and workplaces. All three are divided into two types, low and high density for residential and commercial, and industry and offices for workplaces.

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Residential areas are the backbone of your city. Detached houses such as the ones on low density residential zones are inviting to older people and families with kids. High density residential apartment buildings on the other hand serve the needs of younger adults who value cheaper living costs among other things.

Each zone type serves different groups of citizens even though some overlapping occurs. For example, low density residential building are favored by families with young children and seniors while high density buildings are favored by young adults and families with no children. Low and high density commercial building work in a similar way: different citizen groups choose one zone type over the other if both are available in the city and can be accessed by good road connections.

While most of the workplaces are in the industrial and office zones commercial zones create workplaces as well even though their main function is to sell goods to citizens and accept goods deliveries from local industry. The first to unlock in the workplaces is the industrial zone which creates factories of all sizes according to workplace demand. Industrial efficiency is connected to the quality of workforce (workers' education) as well as their ability to ship goods they produce and if all the stores and shops in the city have full storages industry can stagnate until the issue is solved by providing new businesses or outside connections to ship their goods to. Offices, just like the high density residential and commercial zones, unlocks later in the game when the city is able to provide workers who are adequetly educated to perform in those jobs.

OtE3A1M.png

Zoning some high density commercial areas.

Zoning tools
In Cities: Skylines there are various tools for zoning, each having its uses.

Fill tool lets the player zone large areas on one click. This tool is especially useful with city blocks of small and medium sizes since it can fill them on one go.

Marquee tool allows the player to click and drag an area of their choosing and zone huge areas at once. The margquee tool aligns itself with the grid if the drawing of the area starts next to a zone grid.

The game also features two zoning brushes, a small and a large brush. With these brushes the player can paint zoned areas. The only thing that needs to keep in mind is that the zones have to reach the road or otherwise the buildings won't spawn.

0Fb4tz2.png

Large zoning brush in action.

Building leveling – Residential
Each zoned building has a level. This refers to the education level of the inhabitants, the land value in the neighborhood and the services available close by. As the citizens are educated and the overall quality of life increases with new city service offerings, the buildings gain levels. Lower levels have fewer requirements, for example they require only some of the city services. Lower levels on the other hand have bigger negative impact on the surroundings from polluting factories to residential buildings generating more garbage. The highest levels require full city service coverage as well as great commercial and workplace connections to keep up their standard of living.

Building leveling – Commercial
Similarly to residential buildings commercial buildings require that their neighborhood is at a suitable standard to level up and be able to offer services to higher level citizens (level 1 has general stores while level 3 has designer shops and so on). In most cases the bonuses granted by the presence of city services and the high enough land value will eventually lead commercial buildings to achieve conditions to level up. Unlike residential levels, commercial and industrial buildings with higher levels require workers with higher education. Almost every workplace has some level 0 jobs but in order to get the most out of a 3rd level workplace it requires staff with proper levels of education.

Building leveling – Industrial / Office
Workplaces like industrial buildings and offices level up when the surrounding conditions are met. Land value plays an important role for achieving higher levels and worker education levels are equally important to be able to run the businesses after said leveling has happened. Industry in particular experiences drastic changes when reaching highest level: goods produced are of the highest quality and pollution which is a trademark of lower level factories and such is a thing of the past.

IGBc7W7.png

Offices don't create pollution which is why they can be safely zoned next to a residential area.

Offices unlock at a later stage since they require even more educated personnel to be functional. Once the player reaches this level and is able to really start educating their citizens with the higher level of schools they can choose to switch to office workplaces instead of industry on the expense that it might not create as much tax income as the more polluting yet profitable regular industry.

- Henkka also known as an artist, designer and level designer at Colossal Order
 
All city maps are made up of 25 2x2 squares in a 5x5 grid, of which you can create a city consisting of 9 squares (by default). When you untether your game I believe that will allow you to be able to build on all 25 squares per city not unlimited space (unless modded into the game). The game is optimized for 36km2 and a population of a million cims and you are on your own should you choose to go beyond that.

They should really try to work out a solution similar to the SC4 region play to allow even larger cities.
 
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They should really try to work out a solution similar to the SC4 region play to allow even larger cities.

I agree but I don't think this is going to happen. Kind of a shame no other city builder has used SC4's region template, it's a genious way to create a metropolis with millions of people without being confined by system resources.
 
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What I believe should be interesting is the appreciation of land value, and its heavy relationship with the transportation network. To put it simple: the harder it is to move, the denser will be a city ; the easier it is to move, the more the city will sprawl.

Cities before the rail age were particularly dense because people simply couldn't move really far. Most people then were living in the same building they were working in. This usually resulted in a very high real estate value in a very narrow center, and a very low real estate value in the unaccessible surroundings. When rail appeared, it allowed the land value to raise in the surrounding areas, cities to sprawl and specialization between business and residential areas. Then freeways pushed the thing even further. An extensive freeway network over an open area makes cities sprawl to the max, with suburban office campuses emerging instead of skyscrapers in the center. It's the transportation system which shapes density in a city.

The logic of what is an attractive area or not is firstly a matter of accessibility, and if accessibility is good then it can be further increased by parks and so on. Generally, a city earns money from taxes which are correlated with land value. If the price per square meter is getting more expensive, then more tax money will be earned by the city council without even changing rates. It would be really cool to me if the square meter price would be used as a basis to calculate collected taxes, maybe that's too complicated to implement.

But anyway, the success of urban planning, controlling densification or preventing sprawl, should depend on its ability to fit with the attractiveness of the different city areas, this one being mostly based on the available infrastructures.
 
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Just another thing. Once an area has reached a certain level of density, it's impossible for it to be brought back down.

Of course the land value can shrink, and poorer people can come, it can even be totally abandonned, but it cannot be profitable to destroy a 6-storey building in order to build an individual house instead. That's the reason why, for instance, older US cities from the East Coast are still denser nowadays than newer US cities of the sun belt.
 
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I'm sure it would have occurred to the devs to put medium density in the game so there must be a design decision why they haven't, one which they probably are not able to reveal right now so I think people should wait for a few more dev diaries before stressing about it.
 
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All city maps are made up of 25 2x2 squares in a 5x5 grid, of which you can create a city consisting of 9 squares (by default). When you untether your game I believe that will allow you to be able to build on all 25 squares per city not unlimited space (unless modded into the game). The game is optimized for 36km2 and a population of a million cims and you are on your own should you choose to go beyond that.

Yes. This is my issue exactly, and this is one of the things that is making me very skeptical.
What you start out with is too small.
Why unlock the remaining tiles? I mean seriously, this is a needless artificial barrier that makes me worry about the entire design philosophy.
When unlocked, the city is still too small.
1 million cims is not even the inner city for any medium sized RL city.

I live in a medium sized city, we have 2.6 million people in the metro area.
I live in the city (not in a suburb) and I drive downtown to work. That drive is more than 10km, which is the length of the 5x5 grid.
In fact, the N to S distance from outerbelt to outerbelt is ~40km.
The downloadable and playable SC4 map for my city is 18x14 large city tiles for about 4032km^2. This is ~160% larger than the max map in Skylines.
So yes, the cities are simply too small.

I am not sure how population size translates from game to game, or if it is even relevant, but a large SC4 city tile will easily have a population of 1 million Sims using only low density with some medium density zoning (I use CAM, but this should still be possible with vanilla). I am fine with the idea of population size being ramped down, every game is different after all.

Let me be really clear.
I am enthusiastic about this game.
I will probably buy it just to encourage more development of the genre.
I am also very skeptical.

I think the fine folks on this forum are being entirely too nice.
You do not gush over a new car to the salesperson is you want a good deal.
You do not gush over how perfect a new house is to the realtor if you want to negotiate the price.
You do not tell a dev they are doing a great job if you want a great game.

Ask hard questions!
Make the devs think you will not waste your time if certain aspects are ignored.
Make the devs believe that you have alternatives (you do in the form of other games being independently developed, or even older games).
Encourage the devs when they show something that is greatly wanted and needed.
Consider this: if you let this game turn out to be nothing more than a simple upgrade to SimCity 2013, then this game will not meet the financial expectations of the devs and distributors and the genre will be effectively sidelined for future development.

We have all heard "we are making a very mod friendly game" before. So far, all I have heard is what sounds like talking points. What little specifics has crept out is not especially encouraging so far.
 
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What you start out with is too small.
Why unlock the remaining tiles? I mean seriously, this is a needless artificial barrier that makes me worry about the entire design philosophy.
When unlocked, the city is still too small.
1 million cims is not even the inner city for any medium sized RL city.
I am very curious how you know that? You already played the game? 36square kilometer don't sound small for me. I think there is a thought behind this, and, it's way more than other games on the market offer, so I think we should let it send to us. And with the possible unlocking of all tiles there will be 100km² to play around with. Still too small?

I live in a medium sized city, we have 2.6 million people in the metro area.
May I ask you where you live? I live in Berlin, it's the biggest city in the country with the most citizen in Europe, and there is no other german town that even reaches the 2Mio residents brand. The only towns that beat Berlin in Europe are London and Paris.
I think some people here might forget that this is a CITY BUILDER .. not a METROPOLITAN AREA BUILDER.
 
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I am very curious how you know that? You already played the game? 36square kilometer don't sound small for me. I think there is a thought behind this, and, it's way more than other games on the market offer, so I think we should let it send to us. And with the possible unlocking of all tiles there will be 100km² to play around with. Still too small?

Don't Cities XL have 10 x 10 (100km2) maps? And SC4 have an unlimited size of the map.

I think everyone knows that it's not possible to have a huge map where everything are active at all times. But some sort of compromise where we can build a city of unlimited size, but with some restrictions in simulation of all tiles except the 9 that we choose to have active at the moment. And of course a way to easy switch between tiles.
 
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Yes. This is my issue exactly, and this is one of the things that is making me very skeptical.
What you start out with is too small.
Why unlock the remaining tiles? I mean seriously, this is a needless artificial barrier that makes me worry about the entire design philosophy.
When unlocked, the city is still too small.
1 million cims is not even the inner city for any medium sized RL city.

I live in a medium sized city, we have 2.6 million people in the metro area.
I live in the city (not in a suburb) and I drive downtown to work. That drive is more than 10km, which is the length of the 5x5 grid.
In fact, the N to S distance from outerbelt to outerbelt is ~40km.
The downloadable and playable SC4 map for my city is 18x14 large city tiles for about 4032km^2. This is ~160% larger than the max map in Skylines.
So yes, the cities are simply too small.

I am not sure how population size translates from game to game, or if it is even relevant, but a large SC4 city tile will easily have a population of 1 million Sims using only low density with some medium density zoning (I use CAM, but this should still be possible with vanilla). I am fine with the idea of population size being ramped down, every game is different after all.

Let me be really clear.
I am enthusiastic about this game.
I will probably buy it just to encourage more development of the genre.
I am also very skeptical.

I think the fine folks on this forum are being entirely too nice.
You do not gush over a new car to the salesperson is you want a good deal.
You do not gush over how perfect a new house is to the realtor if you want to negotiate the price.
You do not tell a dev they are doing a great job if you want a great game.

Ask hard questions!
Make the devs think you will not waste your time if certain aspects are ignored.
Make the devs believe that you have alternatives (you do in the form of other games being independently developed, or even older games).
Encourage the devs when they show something that is greatly wanted and needed.
Consider this: if you let this game turn out to be nothing more than a simple upgrade to SimCity 2013, then this game will not meet the financial expectations of the devs and distributors and the genre will be effectively sidelined for future development.

We have all heard "we are making a very mod friendly game" before. So far, all I have heard is what sounds like talking points. What little specifics has crept out is not especially encouraging so far.

How many of us have built in other games the city more than 1 mln pop? Honestly! Because I never! Always cared about every detail in my city and it takes a lot of time, sometimes 8-10 months! and then usually I start to build on another map because the old get me boring.

I believe that 36km2 and 1 mln pop limit is enough for us. It will not be CitiesXL where the most of game are only animations like citizens. In C:S everything will be simulated and will be have destination, so please give peoples of Colossal Order finish thise game, then you can judge it!

The same about medium density zone, no one knows how it will work, but almost everybody write to the people of Colossal: You must add medium density zone!! It's already boring. How do we know that it's a bad idea, that we will be have only low and high density? We don't know! Let's wait until more information becomes or when the game will be relased and now we can talk about what we see, know and what the developer shows us and do not criticize aspect of the game if we don't know how it works!
sorry for my poor English
 
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How many of us have built in other games the city more than 1 mln pop? Honestly! Because I never! Always cared about every detail in my city and it takes a lot of time, sometimes 8-10 months! and then usually I start to build on another map because the old get me boring.

I believe that 36km2 and 1 mln pop limit is enough for us. It will not be CitiesXL where the most of game are only animations like citizens. In C:S everything will be simulated and will be have destination, so please give peoples of Colossal Order finish thise game, then you can judge it!

The same about medium density zone, no one knows how it will work, but almost everybody write to the people of Colossal: You must add medium density zone!! It's already boring. How do we know that it's a bad idea, that we will be have only low and high density? We don't know! Let's wait until more information becomes or when the game will be relased and now we can talk about what we see, know and what the developer shows us and do not criticize aspect of the game what we don't know!
sorry for my poor English

thank you! finally someone said it! we have to wait for new information.
 
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I am very curious how you know that? You already played the game? 36square kilometer don't sound small for me. I think there is a thought behind this, and, it's way more than other games on the market offer, so I think we should let it send to us. And with the possible unlocking of all tiles there will be 100km² to play around with. Still too small?


May I ask you where you live? I live in Berlin, it's the biggest city in the country with the most citizen in Europe, and there is no other german town that even reaches the 2Mio residents brand. The only towns that beat Berlin in Europe are London and Paris.
I think some people here might forget that this is a CITY BUILDER .. not a METROPOLITAN AREA BUILDER.
Your kidding right?
Duke University is larger than 36km^2. The city of Durham N.C. where it is located is essentially a large suburb of Raleigh (no offense to Durham residents).
This is not a "city" builder, this is a village builder that lets you expand to a small town even by European standards.
I gave up trying to find a European city that was only 100km^2 that was not a suburb of some bigger city that most people would have heard of.

I live in a typical American mid-western city, we are not anywhere near the size of Berlin. I should note that the Berlin Urban area is over 8 times the size of the full Skylines map, the Berlin metro area is more than 30 times larger.
In fact, my city is very comparable to Stockholm, the home of Paradox interactive. Stockholm's Urban area is 380km^2 with a population of 900K.

I think everyone knows that it's not possible to have a huge map where everything are active at all times.
No. I do not know that. If I am going to claim that I am doing something visionary, then I am not going to start out by failing to be visionary. This is simply a matter of resources, if they are not here today, they will be here tomorrow.

...Let's wait until more information becomes or when the game will be relased and now we can talk about what we see, know and what the developer shows us and do not criticize aspect of the game what we don't know!
sorry for my poor English

No! Let us not wait!
Why would you want to do this? Do we really need yet another forum thread begging a developer to implement some feature or fix some game breaking issue that should have been dealt with before publication?
Paradox has opened this up to us for discussion.
They want our feedback.
You are wasting the opportunity to have any impact on the game whatsoever by playing the eager sycophant and telling them what a wonderful job they are doing when there are clearly already issues.

What we see now is what is important. I have not criticized what has not been shown, but I have been critical about what they have been vague about. I could be criticizing the cartoonish candy land models, and the horrible graphic detail (Skyrim has better level of detail, and is 3 years old). I will note that Skyrim, like Tomb Raider, was published before machines existed that could play it on max settings.
I understand this is still alpha moving into beta. I am waiting on clear details about modding before I get upset about the ugly models and poor graphics.
Saying the game will be "very mod friendly" is a developer talking point. We have all heard this promise before. It has the same meaning as "the check is in the mail," or "your call is important to us."
I am told "We have Huge Cities." I get a town 1/4 the size of Stockholm's own inner city.
I have heard that there will be limited in-game terraforming so I can make embankments and the like. I see no evidence any where that this is true. Maybe someone can link an image showing evidence of it? until then I treat this as a rumor that Paradox has not bothered to address.
I am told the game will be extremely mod friendly...Well, I certainly hope so. But I certainly will not wait til the game moves into beta to cry about how limited modding is.

Once this game moves fully into beta, there is no going back. If you wait to say something, it will be impossible to implement.
 
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What we see now is what is important. I have not criticized what has not been shown, but I have been critical about what they have been vague about. I could be criticizing the cartoonish candy land models, and the horrible graphic detail (Skyrim has better level of detail, and is 3 years old). I will note that Skyrim, like Tomb Raider, was published before machines existed that could play it on max settings.
I think you are being rather unfair with that comparison. Skyrim is a completely different type of game in genre, size and scope. It had a 90 person development team and an $85m development and marketing budget - at the last count I think Colossal Order only have about a dozen staff!
 
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I like your passion joshua43214. I too would like to see larger cities - seems like a million is small beans these days; however, I don't think CO should be concerning themselves with pushing the graphical limits on computers. Nothing wrong with high expectations, but you may want to temper them somewhat. CO and Paradox are more about allowing as wide an audience as possible to play their games. Also, CO has said they have made a number of tools to make modding easier than it was in CIM2 - a quality map editor for one. I think its fair to let them reveal these upgrades in due time.

Personally, I like the graphics (heck, I still like the SC4 graphics). I'm more concerned with all the current (and future) concepts working correctly. If they don't, and C:S is dead on arrival, than all our other hopes will be moot.
 
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I think you are being rather unfair with that comparison. Skyrim is a completely different type of game in genre, size and scope. It had a 90 person development team and an $85m development and marketing budget - at the last count I think Colossal Order only have about a dozen staff!
not unfair at all. I am talking about level of detail and vision, not game lore, quests, etc.
Asking a modern game to have modern level of detail is not unrealistic.
please do not try to say these pics have anything close to an even decent level of detail
https://www.paradoxplaza.com/cities-skylines
I mean, don't you want landscape that looks better than an impressionist painting?

It is a matter of resources.
Besides, like I said, I have not criticized this because it is possible they are not running it under full render themselves yet. I would imagine that there is still some optimization to be done to the AI. I will give development some more time, then I will join the others complaining that the level of detail is bad.

I have no doubt that Marina and company want to do the right thing. Paradox on the other hand wants the game sooner rather than later.
Did you play Warlock II by any chance? I loved the game, it was a ton of fun - right up to the end when it fell on its face. Rushing to publish gets you Warlock II. If CO can not convince Paradox to let them take the time to make the game right, we get another SimCity 2013.

Your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to provide evidence that the game needs further development, and give Marina the proper ammunition to tell Paradox to back off. As usual, should you or any of your team fail, you will receive a buggy disappointing game and will spend your days begging the devs to add or fix content.
 
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Your kidding right?
Duke University is larger than 36km^2. The city of Durham N.C. where it is located is essentially a large suburb of Raleigh (no offense to Durham residents).
This is not a "city" builder, this is a village builder that lets you expand to a small town even by European standards.
I gave up trying to find a European city that was only 100km^2 that was not a suburb of some bigger city that most people would have heard of.

I live in a typical American mid-western city, we are not anywhere near the size of Berlin. I should note that the Berlin Urban area is over 8 times the size of the full Skylines map, the Berlin metro area is more than 30 times larger.
In fact, my city is very comparable to Stockholm, the home of Paradox interactive. Stockholm's Urban area is 380km^2 with a population of 900K.


No. I do not know that. If I am going to claim that I am doing something visionary, then I am not going to start out by failing to be visionary. This is simply a matter of resources, if they are not here today, they will be here tomorrow.



No! Let us not wait!
Why would you want to do this? Do we really need yet another forum thread begging a developer to implement some feature or fix some game breaking issue that should have been dealt with before publication?
Paradox has opened this up to us for discussion.
They want our feedback.
You are wasting the opportunity to have any impact on the game whatsoever by playing the eager sycophant and telling them what a wonderful job they are doing when there are clearly already issues.

What we see now is what is important. I have not criticized what has not been shown, but I have been critical about what they have been vague about. I could be criticizing the cartoonish candy land models, and the horrible graphic detail (Skyrim has better level of detail, and is 3 years old). I will note that Skyrim, like Tomb Raider, was published before machines existed that could play it on max settings.
I understand this is still alpha moving into beta. I am waiting on clear details about modding before I get upset about the ugly models and poor graphics.
Saying the game will be "very mod friendly" is a developer talking point. We have all heard this promise before. It has the same meaning as "the check is in the mail," or "your call is important to us."
I am told "We have Huge Cities." I get a town 1/4 the size of Stockholm's own inner city.
I have heard that there will be limited in-game terraforming so I can make embankments and the like. I see no evidence any where that this is true. Maybe someone can link an image showing evidence of it? until then I treat this as a rumor that Paradox has not bothered to address.
I am told the game will be extremely mod friendly...Well, I certainly hope so. But I certainly will not wait til the game moves into beta to cry about how limited modding is.

Once this game moves fully into beta, there is no going back. If you wait to say something, it will be impossible to implement.
I think that city building games may not be for you. Especially not this one.
 
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