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Hello again! This time we will take a peek at how the game systems actually work. Some of the main goals for us at Colossal Order where to create fun systems which interact with each other, and to have simulated individual citizens.

At the heart of Cities: Skylines is how the individual citizens and goods move around the city. Citizens have a name, age, a home and a workplace, unless they are students at the university or too young to work. Citizens travel to work, go shopping and occasionally visit leisure locations like parks. Not all citizens own cars, so some walk and others drive. If public transportation is available, most of the people without cars will use it for longer trips. Even people with cars use public transportation if they notice driving with their own car might be slower because of the traffic.

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Because simulating individual citizens takes some processing power, we opted to cut down the number of citizens. Some residential buildings have a quite low amount of people living in them compared to the size of the building. We felt choosing individual citizens over realistic numbers brought more to the game. So while your high-rise might have only 12 households, everyone has a name and a logical pattern of moving around the city.

Goods are produced in industrial areas and transported to commercial areas to be sold to citizens and tourists. This means that wherever there’s a commercial area, there will be trucks driving to and from it. To produce goods, industrial areas use raw materials. If the city produces raw materials by specialized industry, the industry will automatically get them shipped from the specialized production facilities. Industry prefers materials from inside the city, but if none are available, they will order raw materials from outside locations. Materials arriving from outside locations come by truck if no train or cargo ship connections are available, which will put a stress on the road system.

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To avoid traffic jams, vehicles choose their route so that they try to avoid busiest spots in the city. They also like to choose lanes early to avoid switching lanes and blocking off two lanes in the process if they are trying to push their way into a line of cars and have to wait. If the traffic does not flow well, there’s a traffic info view to show the spots where problems lie. Using roundabouts, elevated roads and building roads to get the vehicles straight to where they are going is are a big part of the game.

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Everything is connected. If you build a Fire Station that sends out fire engines to put out fires, the service vehicles can only get to the fires if the roads are not crowded with other vehicles. But just having a Fire Station near by raises the happiness of residential houses. A raise in happiness means the residents are less likely to turn to crime, even if they are unemployed for some time.

Karoliina Korppoo, Colossal Order, lead designer on Cities: Skylines
 
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What is this "more people per square mile is better" mentality? Look at the population densities and living conditions in China, India, etc., and tell me that's a "good thing."

Thank goodness at least one other person sees through this "realism" dogma. Moreover, everyone seems to be missing that the game is an approximation of reality - and thus cannot simulate every neuron in every Cims' brain.

Population density:
- Shanghai - 3,809/km2
- New York City - ~7,000/km2
- Mahattan - 27,345.9/km2
- C:SL - 27,777/km2

I think this game is looking great so far. Most complaints are fixated on numbers (or graphical sizes) which have very little to do with meaningful gameplay and enjoyability for the majority of players. Moreover, even when someone has substantive feedback on this forum they often state is in the most extreme possible sense "I will hate this game - unless you make the airport runway somewhat flatter looking in its graphical representation! If that is corrected, I will love it!"

Come on guys, this isn't politics :) I trust CO also are aware of above and will execute their vision (which looks like a good one, on the whole), taking in feedback only where there is a reasonable return of meaningful player enjoyment to time invested...
 
I LOVE the idea of having a simple toggle switch... to change the population display between the actual number of people being simulated actively by the game, and the figure that would be represented by that number.
 
I would highly recommend to have an interactive map which indicate the information of zones. (For example: layer of map which indicate the proportion of development, or the flow of traffic). Otherwise it's very difficult for player to make a good master-plan. As a city builder, We want a big picture but not the daily life of a citizen.

c1.pdf.jpg
c2.pdf.jpg
 
Thank goodness at least one other person sees through this "realism" dogma. Moreover, everyone seems to be missing that the game is an approximation of reality - and thus cannot simulate every neuron in every Cims' brain.

Population density:
- Shanghai - 3,809/km2
- New York City - ~7,000/km2
- Mahattan - 27,345.9/km2
- C:SL - 27,777/km2

I think this game is looking great so far. Most complaints are fixated on numbers (or graphical sizes) which have very little to do with meaningful gameplay and enjoyability for the majority of players. Moreover, even when someone has substantive feedback on this forum they often state is in the most extreme possible sense "I will hate this game - unless you make the airport runway somewhat flatter looking in its graphical representation! If that is corrected, I will love it!"

Come on guys, this isn't politics :) I trust CO also are aware of above and will execute their vision (which looks like a good one, on the whole), taking in feedback only where there is a reasonable return of meaningful player enjoyment to time invested...

I completely agree
 
That city looks almost like downtown Lahti. You Colossal Order guys probably know what I'm talking about...
 
Noticed there's a slight confusion regarding the "lowered Cim numbers". This doesn't mean we've lowered our goal of 1mil simulated citizens, it's more a general note on the fact that we're not inflating Cim numbers just to, well, have large numbers. :)
 
Noticed there's a slight confusion regarding the "lowered Cim numbers". This doesn't mean we've lowered our goal of 1mil simulated citizens, it's more a general note on the fact that we're not inflating Cim numbers just to, well, have large numbers. :)

It's just that the maths doesn't add up - 12 households per high-rise, 36 sq. km city, one million citizens. Is that possible even if you cover the entire map with high-density apartment blocks?

This is 2x2km covered with apartment blocks in Sim City:
http://imgur.com/a/gW7F9

That's 1.8 million fudged population divided by 8.25 = 218 400 residents in 2x2 km, with every building housing 700. Sure, Skylines cities are 6x6km, but 12"households" is less than 50 people per building, rather than 700.
 
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I am getting concerned that even at this late stage where simulation has definitely been designed and started development, still no one will answer my questions about diurnal cycles or otherwise in traffic flow related to working/school hours. Surely it's not *still* yet to be considered?
 
It's just that the maths doesn't add up - 12 households per high-rise, 36 sq. km city, one million citizens. Is that possible even if you cover the entire map with high-density apartment blocks?

This is 2x2km covered with apartment blocks in Sim City:
http://imgur.com/a/gW7F9

That's 1.8 million fudged population divided by 8.25 = 218 400 residents in 2x2 km, with every building housing 700. Sure, Skylines cities are 6x6km, but 12"households" is less than 50 people per building, rather than 700.

In sc 2013 there where a stop at 100k agents i think or have they canceled this? In cities skyline we can have 1 Mio simulated resident not just a dump number so in your picture you have not these 1,8 million and not that 218.400 peopel and the town look not so nice and even not realistic the numbers arent too.
 
- C:SL - 27,777/km2
Everyone keeps using that as an example, but you seems to forget that the game doesn't start on the map being filled with skyscrapers. Before you reach that 1mln population, the density will be unrealistically low. And yes, it's just a game, but it's suppose to SIMULATE REAL CITIES, so how is it weird that we don't like something being very unrealistic yet easy to fix? Its like being surprised that people complain about old trains going 500km/h in a train simulation game.

TotalyMoo
Noticed there's a slight confusion regarding the "lowered Cim numbers". This doesn't mean we've lowered our goal of 1mil simulated citizens, it's more a general note on the fact that we're not inflating Cim numbers just to, well, have large numbers.
It's not about having large numbers, its about having more realistic numbers. We are not asking for 2000 people per household, just more than 50 people per skyscraper.
 
I am getting concerned that even at this late stage where simulation has definitely been designed and started development, still no one will answer my questions about diurnal cycles or otherwise in traffic flow related to working/school hours. Surely it's not *still* yet to be considered?

I've asked about this a few times too. Dunno why they haven't answered yet.
 
It's just that the maths doesn't add up - 12 households per high-rise, 36 sq. km city, one million citizens. Is that possible even if you cover the entire map with high-density apartment blocks?

This is 2x2km covered with apartment blocks in Sim City:
http://imgur.com/a/gW7F9

That's 1.8 million fudged population divided by 8.25 = 218 400 residents in 2x2 km, with every building housing 700. Sure, Skylines cities are 6x6km, but 12"households" is less than 50 people per building, rather than 700.

I see your point. In Cities: Skylines the maximum size of a residential building is 32m x 32m, which makes a difference when trying to figure out the maximum number of citizens.

Let's imagine we have a map with 80% land and the rest is water. Let's estimate that the infrastructure takes up to 30 % of this land area with minimalistic roads, the necessary city services with power plants build on the water (like wind turbines and hydro power plants) and minimum amount of workplaces to maximize the area available for the residential zone. This would leave us with 20,16 km^2 for the residential zone. Naturally choosing to build the high density residential zone we maximize the amount of buildings which then would be 20,16/0,001024=19 687,5. We cant have half a building to let's round that down. If we imagine that all the residential buildings have 50 people living in them we'll get 984 350 citizens.

We also have to remember that the up to one million people on the map includes the tourists as well. So by building a ship route to the city (doesn't take space on the land) we can attract the missing 15 650 people to visit the city. In theory if you have no tourists you might be able to raise the number of citizens.

Of course this is an estimate but even if we would take more area for the infrastructure we can still get decent amount of individuals appearing to the city. One major factor is of course the available land area since maps with more water will not fit as many people. There also needs to be proper education for people to seek office jobs as they hold more available jobs and is a factor for the high density residential to level up and having more households.

So to the original question "12 households per high-rise, 36 sq. km city, one million citizens. Is that possible even if you cover the entire map with high-density apartment blocks?" the answer is yes and no. In theory the map could fit 1,7 million citizens if you cover the entire map with high density apartments. But in practice there needs to be water, city services, workplaces etc so you can't have only high density residential in your city. Though you can still have up to 1 million people (=citizens and tourists) in your city. I guess it's up to the player what the ratio is.

[DISCLAIMER: This hasn't been tested, but I'm thinking about assigning someone to check how valid my estimation is.]
 
The funny thing is, that being used to playing The Sims, I am perfectly happy to imagine that my city is actually a miniature city, and therefore distances and sizes and capacities are less, rather than needing it to accurately represent a full-scale city.
 
I am perfectly happy to imagine that my city is actually a miniature city, and therefore distances and sizes and capacities are less, rather than needing it to accurately represent a full-scale city.

Absolutely.

From a macro perspective, perhaps those worried about scale and if the city will feel big should think more about the number of possible skyscrapers that can fit in a city, rather then the number of simulated agents in each one. I'm guessing that 20k skyscrapers is significantly more than what is possible in SC2013...

I for one think the scale/population/agent details sounds reasonable, although of course will reserve judgment until I can play a final version. As mentioned elsewhere, beyond a reasonable level of "realism" (which this seems to meet), I am much more concerned about difficulty and fun of the game mechanics, as those are what really determine long-term play-ability.
 
Nice Dev diary,

but I have at least one complaint:


You are writing about fire stations and that fire engines couldn't get to a fire, if there's too much congestion.

There's something popping up in my mind, that reminds me of this BIG Sim City 5 failure/bug:
Fire engines couldn't get out of their station.

So my questions:

1. Are cars simulated individually or as a path from one destination to another?

2. Doesn't ambulances and fire engines get a priority within a traffic flow, e.g. higher average speed or similar? Perhaps cars moving out of their way?
Or will other cars block their path until judgement day?

This picture with the ambulance you posted, seems to give this impression of cars blocking the streets.


I have a bad feeling...
 
Also what SimCity gets wrong with emergency vehicles is they all seem to get sent to one fire, including ones the other side of town when you already took the trouble to buiild a fire station to cover that area, then when a fire breaks out in the area it should have been stationed in, it's the other side of town stuck in a traffic jam trying unnecessarily to reach the first fire that was put out quite easily by just one engine. The call shouldn't even go out to stations other than the nearest unless the fire is out of control and needs such a huge attendance.
 
Another thing comes to mind.



Maybe we need to play the thing before we start saying what is definitely wrong and right. You sometimes need to get familiar with something before suggesting changes.

And I know, people are raising points now before releases as that would be a good time to do so while development is still going on. But CO have taken a design decision here and it feels like it's a pretty crucial core decision that impacts the entire simulation, especially with traffic flow.

Can that really be changed at this late stage, I'm not sure. We'd need a dev to answer.

If after playing and it still doesn't feel right I'm not sure what can be done. What approach to take to "correct" it.

Personally I'd be happy with a fudge if necessary, the game engine tracks a limited number of people per building because that's what it needs to do, but the building display shows a different number in each building, a more realistic number. Not sure if that's possible.

Perhaps a config option that let's the player choose a fudge factor.

Either way, the only true thing in much game development is that you can't please everyone all the time :)