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Hello again! This time we will take a peek at how the game systems actually work. Some of the main goals for us at Colossal Order where to create fun systems which interact with each other, and to have simulated individual citizens.

At the heart of Cities: Skylines is how the individual citizens and goods move around the city. Citizens have a name, age, a home and a workplace, unless they are students at the university or too young to work. Citizens travel to work, go shopping and occasionally visit leisure locations like parks. Not all citizens own cars, so some walk and others drive. If public transportation is available, most of the people without cars will use it for longer trips. Even people with cars use public transportation if they notice driving with their own car might be slower because of the traffic.

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Because simulating individual citizens takes some processing power, we opted to cut down the number of citizens. Some residential buildings have a quite low amount of people living in them compared to the size of the building. We felt choosing individual citizens over realistic numbers brought more to the game. So while your high-rise might have only 12 households, everyone has a name and a logical pattern of moving around the city.

Goods are produced in industrial areas and transported to commercial areas to be sold to citizens and tourists. This means that wherever there’s a commercial area, there will be trucks driving to and from it. To produce goods, industrial areas use raw materials. If the city produces raw materials by specialized industry, the industry will automatically get them shipped from the specialized production facilities. Industry prefers materials from inside the city, but if none are available, they will order raw materials from outside locations. Materials arriving from outside locations come by truck if no train or cargo ship connections are available, which will put a stress on the road system.

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To avoid traffic jams, vehicles choose their route so that they try to avoid busiest spots in the city. They also like to choose lanes early to avoid switching lanes and blocking off two lanes in the process if they are trying to push their way into a line of cars and have to wait. If the traffic does not flow well, there’s a traffic info view to show the spots where problems lie. Using roundabouts, elevated roads and building roads to get the vehicles straight to where they are going is are a big part of the game.

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Everything is connected. If you build a Fire Station that sends out fire engines to put out fires, the service vehicles can only get to the fires if the roads are not crowded with other vehicles. But just having a Fire Station near by raises the happiness of residential houses. A raise in happiness means the residents are less likely to turn to crime, even if they are unemployed for some time.

Karoliina Korppoo, Colossal Order, lead designer on Cities: Skylines
 
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1. I'm wondering that the streets are way too empty. There's almost nobody walking or driving around the city in those screenshots. That "12 people per building" thing just makes this issue even worse. (Because even though there are lots of high rises, there are still no enough people on the streets.)

2. Can we make a mod what makes the population number bigger? Like when the real population is 10 000, it shows 15 000. Or when the real population is 200 000 people, the game shows 300 000.

(I wrote this very quickly so sorry if you didn't understand :p)
 
1. I'm wondering that the streets are way too empty. There's almost nobody walking or driving around the city in those screenshots. That "12 people per building" thing just makes this issue even worse. (Because even though there are lots of high rises, there are still no enough people on the streets.)

2. Can we make a mod what makes the population number bigger? Like when the real population is 10 000, it shows 15 000. Or when the real population is 200 000 people, the game shows 300 000.

(I wrote this very quickly so sorry if you didn't understand :p)

Thats exactly what people have gotten mad over. The numbers being fudged to make it look like you have more population then you actually do. Its definitely a balance between the two for sure.
 
Thats exactly what people have gotten mad over. The numbers being fudged to make it look like you have more population then you actually do. Its definitely a balance between the two for sure.
I know some people don't like it, but I would like to see a bit bigger number there. I don't really care if it's not the actual number of simulated cims.
 
I know some people don't like it, but I would like to see a bit bigger number there. I don't really care if it's not the actual number of simulated cims.

Why? A bigger number would be completely meaningless. Other than that your city would maybe feel more "epic"? I think you're going to be in the minority here. For me it is great that when I see my city has a certain number of cims I can know that everyone has a real presense, that each one can be seen on my screen and that they will all be using the city as I have built it for them. Every cim will be affected by whether I have done a good or bad job building my city and this is what will give this game depth and soul.
 
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Generally speaking I'd rather see the actual number of residents/workers in buildings and my city than some fictional multiplier and am glad that is the direction CO seem to have taken with CSL.


I don't mind reduced numbers in buildings, what I really don't like is inconsistency. If an apartment building looks 10x bigger than a house it should have 10x more people. What I don't want to see is a single family house having 1 family, a duplex having 2 families, a small apartment building having 4 (despite being 4x as big as the duplex) and then a huge residential tower only having 12. It means we can't look at the graphics of our city and judge the density, since as buildings get bigger their stats become lower per square meter.

I don't mind lowered stats, but keep it consistent relative to the sizes of the building, don't make it diminish as buildings get bigger as that totally defeats the purpose of bigger buildings. Or just don't have big buildings if your game can't handle them. I rather have all the buildings have consistent stats that match their model than models with half the stats they should have.
This. It was one of the things that really frustrated me in CiM2, where a huge building would only contain a few more residents/workers than a smaller one. I don't mind that the larger and high-density buildings won't have "realistic" numbers of residents or workers, but they do still need to be scaled somewhat reasonably compared with small single family residences or shops.

That said 12 households for a high density building does seem a little on the low side, but it depends on the actual size of the building in question (e.g. does it have six floors, or 12?) and the size of the households (1 or 2 people or 6 people?). Also is this 12 household figure the maximum for any high rise residential building or just an example, and if the former does it refer to all residential buildings or just zoned residential (vs the larger ploppable skyscrapers we've been told about).


Though you can still have up to 1 million people (=citizens and tourists) in your city. I guess it's up to the player what the ratio is.
Out of interest does the 1 million people also include all the lorry drivers importing and exporting raw materials and goods to/from commercial and industrial properties in our city? Those potentially being part of the transient population (like tourists) who don't actually live in the city. Also do visiting tourists have hotels to stay in?


1. I'm wondering that the streets are way too empty. There's almost nobody walking or driving around the city in those screenshots. That "12 people per building" thing just makes this issue even worse. (Because even though there are lots of high rises, there are still no enough people on the streets.)

2. Can we make a mod what makes the population number bigger? Like when the real population is 10 000, it shows 15 000. Or when the real population is 200 000 people, the game shows 300 000.
1) It's 12 households per building, not 12 people - that's actually quite a significant difference. ;)

2) I don't see why modding the displayed number to be fake/bigger would make the game any better - especially as it would have absolutely no bearing on your first point. In fact it would probably make it worse because the city would appear even more empty vs the population you've told the game to tell you the city has. And as people have already mentioned this disparity seems to have been a major complaint about the recent SimCity game, so I'm not sure it's something we want CO to replicate.
 
1) It's 12 households per building, not 12 people - that's actually quite a significant difference. ;)

2) I don't see why modding the displayed number to be fake/bigger would make the game any better - especially as it would have absolutely no bearing on your first point. In fact it would probably make it worse because the city would appear even more empty vs the population you've told the game to tell you the city has. And as people have already mentioned this disparity seems to have been a major complaint about the recent SimCity game, so I'm not sure it's something we want CO to replicate.

Oops :D Yeah, 12 households. I somehow made a mistake there.

With my other question, yes it maybe makes it worse.

Why? A bigger number would be completely meaningless. Other than that your city would maybe feel more "epic"? I think you're going to be in the minority here. For me it is great that when I see my city has a certain number of cims I can know that everyone has a real presense, that each one can be seen on my screen and that they will all be using the city as I have built it for them. Every cim will be affected by whether I have done a good or bad job building my city and this is what will give this game depth and soul.

I agree, but it just came to my mind. Maybe because of I didn't like the realistic population mod for SimCIty when my city with 500 000 inhabitants and skycrapers suddenly became a 50 000 people town. (f*****n SimCIty :rolleyes:) And really, in the screenshot above, there are skycrapers and the population is only 18 000?? The city size doesn't even seem to be very small either if we ignore the skycrapers.
 
I don't mind reduced numbers in buildings, what I really don't like is inconsistency. If an apartment building looks 10x bigger than a house it should have 10x more people. What I don't want to see is a single family house having 1 family, a duplex having 2 families, a small apartment building having 4 (despite being 4x as big as the duplex) and then a huge residential tower only having 12. It means we can't look at the graphics of our city and judge the density, since as buildings get bigger their stats become lower per square meter.

I don't mind lowered stats, but keep it consistent relative to the sizes of the building, don't make it diminish as buildings get bigger as that totally defeats the purpose of bigger buildings. Or just don't have big buildings if your game can't handle them. I rather have all the buildings have consistent stats that match their model than models with half the stats they should have.

It's just like farms and forestry, either do it right or don't do it at all if you're going to do it in such a bad way that it detracts from the game.
If this is the case, I can build a low density city that takes up all the map with a small downtown area with only a few office high rises and my population will be accurate, to a degree. The more high density residential I build, the more inaccurate a realistic population becomes compared to the skyline. I can live with that.
Also, the game looks awesome in those three screens. The colours look good and so does the lighting. It just looks so alive and exciting. The car colours could do with some toning down, but looking good over all.
 
Except there doesn't have to be any compromises here, just count one cim as a few people.


Yeah, we're totally gonna go outside and build a city. It's called "simulation" for a reason. Are we suppose to accept everything as it is because "its just a game"? Most of the people, including me, are very exited about the game and there isn't many things we don't like about it, and the things we don't like, we point out before the game comes out. If not now then when?

When I first started reading this thread, I agreed with Kanimir, but kept reading to get everyone's point of view. But I still have to agree with his point of view.
In CIM 1 & 2, the numbers just didn't match up. A standard bus would carry 12 people? While a deluxe model may carry up to 36. When in reality, maximum capacity of a standard (real life) bus is 74. Yeah okay in that example you have to 'dumb it down' a bit for the simulation, taking in to account the individual actions of all those people and scaling it to what the common PC could handle.
But having these ridiculous numbers in my face throughout gameplay used to sh*t me. I was playing a mass transit game, not a 'let's all cram in to a minivan'.

To get back on track (pun intended), although it's been suggested that players on this side of the argument should just 'add a zero to the number in our heads', how's about we just have more realistic numbers instead, not with the ability to follow each and every citizen from dawn til dusk, but if you have an apartment building, 20 stories high, 10 apartments each floor, I'm expecting 20*10*1.5*80% of them to come out of the building between 6-10 am. If I choose to have a city packed densely with these types of buildings, I had better plan it well otherwise I'll really need to invest in trauma centres to cope with stampedes.

CIM2 we just had to ignore the fact that the clock was broken. A bus took 12 hours to complete its route. Though still a simulator, I'm just expecting it to be a little bit more realistic than CIM & SC2013
 
Simcity 4 had the exact opposite "problem" as CSL. Simcity 4 had outrageous numbers of people living in apartments. We're talking thousands. The numbers made me depressed, i remember i successfully modded the apartment resident number to a more realistic proportion. Usually between factors of x4 and x10. And i modded every SC4 residential apartment and house to hold more realistic number of people.

I believe the same can be done for C:SL, except in the other direction. Instead of decreasing the pop. you increase it per highrise apartment.

It would be pretty funny and unbelievable if the game wouldn't allow you to edit game files especially since this game has been described as "modder friendly" from day 1.
 
You know, at some point in time you have to say "It's a 'simulation'- it's not an 'accurate representation'".

I know some of you are focused on 'citizen' data, but why aren't you wanting to know:
* Kilowatts/hour each power plant produces? How much is each home or business using?
* Depth of the water at various points and draft of each loaded cargo ship?
* Where's the gas stations? How do the cars fill up? What mileage does each car get (how far can it travel)?
* How many apartments are in each apartment building, or are they all the same?
* Are there wrecks? Street repairs? Do vehicles break down and tie up traffic?
* Do buildings age?
* Are there any malls? Parking garages?
* Why are there no city limits, with different tax rates for within and outside the limits?

You get the idea. There's lots of other stuff to focus on besides 'citizen data'.
It IS a game, it can't do it all, and we're darn lucky it does what it does.
While some may want more 'citizen' detail, others may want more traffic detail, or power detail, or whatever detail.

I think CO is, as my dad used to say, "Doing the best they can till the good lord comes and gets 'em".
 
While some may want more 'citizen' detail, others may want more traffic detail, or power detail, or whatever detail.
Exactly, so why are you continuously trying to tell us that what we want is not necessary just because YOU don't care about that?
 
Because some of you continuously keep saying it is, someone needs to keep saying it isn't. We're just each expressing our opinions. Neither will convince the other they're wrong or to change their mind. Can't CO hear both sides?
 
1. I'm wondering that the streets are way too empty. There's almost nobody walking or driving around the city in those screenshots. That "12 people per building" thing just makes this issue even worse. (Because even though there are lots of high rises, there are still no enough people on the streets.)

I hope the streets will be more lively in the full game, more people in them, etc.
 
Okay so I looked at the screenshots we've released recently and it seems like we have turned of pedestrians or something, because in-game it's pretty hectic and the streets get filled fast.

Let me check if I can boot up a city and grab a more representative shot of the activity to expect :)
 
Okay so I looked at the screenshots we've released recently and it seems like we have turned of pedestrians or something, because in-game it's pretty hectic and the streets get filled fast.

Let me check if I can boot up a city and grab a more representative shot of the activity to expect :)

I wish you could turn off Pedestrians here during the Tourist season, you need a machete to walk around properly :(


Any-hoo, looking forward to see more representative game shots.