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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

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Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

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The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
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Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

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While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

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A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

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Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

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First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

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Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
I know, I'm like 70% sure I'm talking about playable Hellenism myself...

A couple of things:

1) Will Romans get access to Byzantine events like chariot races and all that too, or will you still have to be Greek for that? Could it be possible for non-Greek vassals of Byzantium to get these events?

2) So can I just ask, on an abstract level, what the Roman Renaissance actually represents? Is it like Eu4, where (at least the community seems to suggest) you just rebrand your current culture and start using fancy names, or is it, on a deeper level, trying to restore Roman culture through things like reintroducing chariot races to Italians etc. and essentially Byzantifying the West. I can actually imagine a revival in Latin being within the scope of realism, since for half of the game's timeframe everyone spoke dialects of Latin instead of individual Romance languages anyway. Latin as a lingua franca could hold the same weight that Arabic did in displacing languages, and with greater probability since it's actually ancestral with massive general similarity and/or literally just the standardized register of the language they're speaking anyway. After all, with a proper empire, the language can be standardized
 
Will the Hellenic unreformed religion have a Religious Head or only the Reformed one?
Only the reformed one (if you do not pick Autonomous Leadership, of course).

What characteristics has the Hellenic religion? Like excommunication, divorce, invasion, etc.
The abilities of a Reformed Hellenic Religious Head depend on the Leadership picked, but there are no special "Papal" actions, if that is what you are asking. It works the same as any other Pagan Religious Head.

Will the Pontifex Maximus have a College of Cardinals like College of Pontiffs?
I'm afraid not.

Are temple dedication hardcoded for Hellenism only or it can also be modded for other pagan religions,

They are set only for Hellenics, but they are not hardcoded. I had thought about making it into a Doctrine, like Haruspicy and Astrology, but unfortunately that would have taken a lot more time, since the entire event structure would have needed to be adapted to all the various deities of the other pagan religions (as well as the fact that some Doctrines change the gods).

There could be some nasty events for christendom to go with it?
There's some flavor about the Christian reaction, yes. Nothing major though.
 
Jupiterdammit, I already couldn't wait for Holy Fury to come out, and now, after reading this, every second that I still have to wait is a second too much.

I already had to abandon my Mali/Africa play-through because after seeing the upcoming changes to pagans, and Africa itself, I could no longer play it without these changes, and now you have also ruined my Sicilian/Byzantium/Roman Empire play-through that I started after abandoning my Africa play-through.

Seriously, Hellenism looks awesome and I can't wait to go for a true Roman revival game.

Can you tell us what kind of culture-specific troops the Roman culture will get? As far as I remember they were the one culture that didn't get any before.
 
This is spectacular - thank you, devs*. I know I was critical of some of the excessive pressure for this feature, but I actually really like how it's been done. I have some questions:

1) Which map view is the first screenshot?

2) Does the decision to destroy the churches destroy the Papacy title, or does it just deprive the Pope of his holdings in Rome? And does it kill (and make potential martyrs of) the Pope and any cardinals who are present in Rome?

3) Does Hellenism get a holy order?

4) Seconding the earlier question: does a hierocratic reformed Hellenism get a College of Pontiffs?

Thanks,

nd

*DEVS IN ADIVTORIVM, &c.
 
Awesome, sure, it might not be historical, but non-historical stuff that are well worked out and balanced are actualy very fun to do sometimes :), also, who doesn't want to recreate a Hellenic Roman Empire spawing over most of Europe?
It didn't happen, but it could have happened. It reminds me of the way Akhenaton started his religion. Although that was a new religion, not a revival of an old one. But it's the idea of an "enlightened madman".
 
Owww Paradox, you have no idea how much I love you right now. On a side note, I might me going insane for waiting for all these great things to actually come out. But, I'd rather wait, I'm pretty sure it will be worth it. :)
 

I also wanted to do this but you beat me to it


On a side note, I just thought of a couple things to say on this:

1) This is basically a Gemistus Pletho event chain, but with the player instead of a courtier

2) If reforming as a Greek gives them Greek names, that bodes well at the very least for modders seeking localization stuff.
 
What are the powers of the pontifex maximus? There will be events for the Oracle of Delphi? Does Hellenic have heretical forms? Will we be able to make rulers deities like they did with Alexander The Great?