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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

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Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

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The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
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Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

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While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

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A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

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Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

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First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

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Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
I suppose Neoplatonism could work as a heresy
No, it doesn't. Heresies don't make sense for Hellenism, let alone any pluralistic polytheistic religion with an emphasis on praxis over doxa, and Neoplatonists were stark defenders of traditional Hellenic cults and worship. It essentially came to be the default theology of Hellenism by the late 3rd century. Emperor Julian literally used the philosophy in his attempt to reform the religion.

But shouldn’t the other set of the gods be considered a heresy? Because the Roman variants on the Greek gods are more war like, and the Greek variants of the Roman gods are more diplomatic like. Then again that would be more culture based than religion based. So I guess the different names could be considered a heresy to the ruling culture?
That's not heresy. That was just another culture's manifestation of the Gods. Greeks weren't calling Romans "heretics," or vice versa. Christianity isn't the template of all religion-- this line of thinking is essentially incompatible with ancient thought. In ancient rhetoric Romans would write in Greek, and use the Greek names of their Gods.
 
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can we reform religions if we reconquer persia/own the christian world and mend the schism/build the third temple since disabling crusades or getting random peasants off the street being a religious head and a variation of crusades immediately
 
If we reform the Hellenic faith do we get any new option to interact with Incitatus, the Trampler of Nations?
What if we restore the Roman Empire as an Hellenic Horse?
 
Will Roman culture have a unique unit skins or will they use the Italian or Greek unit skins?

If there is a unique skin for the Roman soldiers, I believe it would make more sense to have their appearance as a combination rather like the Byzantines (Romans of the Middle Ages), and also some influences from the Italians of the Middle Ages. The Italian Pikemen actually look kind of pseudo-Late Roman, come to think of it. Notice the mail armor, the shoes, and the helmet. It looks pretty similar to how the Comitatenses were dressed during the 4th through 6th centuries AD. Alternately, I would be OK with the Romans having just either Italian or Byzantine style unit skins, which I mostly expect.

I wonder which style the Dalmatian culture will receive, considering that they were basically provincial Roman-Illyrians that had maintained much of their culture and language, despite many having eventually mixed with the Croatians, as well as some Serbs and Avars? Italian unit skins probably make the most sense for the Dalmatians, but if there is a new Croatian category of unit skins, that may also fit them, or even for the late game, to symbolize further assimilation of the Dalmatian culture to the Croatian one. I wonder if the Croats will receive a new cultural retinue, instead of the Serbian Gusar? Do you think the Dalmatians should get Italian Pikemen, instead? Should their unit skins be based on the Italian ones all throughout the game?
 

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Mind if I ask again if you’re going to de-anglicize the Roman names?

Also, a minor suggestion: Instead of Roman Renaissance, Roman Renovatio. Same basic implication, but more Latin-y.

He's stated several times that the Latin god names will remain exactly as they are in vanilla right now.
 
If you adopt Ancestor Veneration when reforming Hellenism, can you deify your ancestors? (In other words, is the localisation for sainthood under Hellenism "The Divine...", as was used for emperors during the Principate?)

nd
Potential achievement- Great Caesar's Ghost: Venerate an ancestor who had received the nickname "the Great" while Emperor of restored Rome.
 
He's stated several times that the Latin god names will remain exactly as they are in vanilla right now.

I’m not asking about the god names, I’m asking about character names.
 
He's stated several times that the Latin god names will remain exactly as they are in vanilla right now.

I suppose we will be sticking with our contemporary English renditions of some Latin names, then. Jupiter, instead of Iuppiter, and Julius, instead of Iulius.

I’m not asking about the god names, I’m asking about character names.

I wonder if there will be such a distinction made, in naming Romans, versus the gods?
 
Honest question @Silfae or the other devs: Is this going to be the last DLC?!
There really seems to be barely anything left that could be done afterwards, except for unlikely stuff such as naval combat and the likes.
I personally don't hope for it (i.e. I would want at least one more DLC), but I somehow get strong vibes it's going in that direction...
 
Honest question @Silfae or the other devs: Is this going to be the last DLC?!
There really seems to be barely anything left that could be done afterwards, except for unlikely stuff such as naval combat and the likes.
I personally don't hope for it (i.e. I would want at least one more DLC), but I somehow get strong vibes it's going in that direction...

I would rather not know that, personally. If they state that it is the last DLC, I fear that I may become depressed, or at least stressed, which is not good for one's health.
 
If there is a unique skin for the Roman soldiers, I believe it would make more sense to have their appearance as a combination rather like the Byzantines (Romans of the Middle Ages), and also some influences from the Italians of the Middle Ages. The Italian Pikemen actually look kind of pseudo-Late Roman, come to think of it. Notice the mail armor, the shoes, and the helmet. It looks pretty similar to how the Comitatenses were dressed during the 4th through 6th centuries AD. Alternately, I would be OK with the Romans having just either Italian or Byzantine style unit skins, which I mostly expect.

I wonder which style the Dalmatian culture will receive, considering that they were basically provincial Roman-Illyrians that had maintained much of their culture and language, despite many having eventually mixed with the Croatians, as well as some Serbs and Avars? Italian unit skins probably make the most sense for the Dalmatians, but if there is a new Croatian category of unit skins, that may also fit them, or even for the late game, to symbolize further assimilation of the Dalmatian culture to the Croatian one. I wonder if the Croats will receive a new cultural retinue, instead of the Serbian Gusar? Do you think the Dalmatians should get Italian Pikemen, instead? Should their unit skins be based on the Italian ones all throughout the game?

Dalmatians are currently geared to use Italian graphics, although I personally thought the historical Dalmatian soldiers were outfitted closer to Byzantines (although with a very Italian-esque army composition)
 
We sholud remember that we are talking about MEDIEVAL neo-hellenism. It does not have to be the perfect copy of antiquity. Certain things may be understood differently because of cultural changes through the ages and the influence of other religions.
 
Can we restart the Olympic games? Rebuild all the major Hellenic/Roman monuments? Celebrate the major Hellenic/Roman festivals? Reinstate the Legions? There's so much flavor that could be added for this new feature. I hope we get another major wish from the community next which is some form of naval combat. Would be great for the Vikings and Byzantines etc. Especially the Byzantines and their Greek Fire superweapon.
 
Please for the love of all the RNG pantheon holds dear make this possible for an AI to do! It would be insanely fun for Hellenism to get re-introduced and then as say the king of Jerusalem go marching in with the Templars against the Roman Empire.

PLEASE OH PLEASE MAKE THIS POSSIBLE
XD