• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

20180730093248_1.jpg


Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

20180730093553_1.jpg


The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
20180730093708_1.jpg


Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

20180730094033_1.jpg


While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

20180730094125_1.jpg


A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

Hellenics5.jpg


Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

20180730094306_1.jpg


First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

20180730094406_1.jpg


Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
Yes. Naturally, if the character is already Hellenic, you will not have access to the events dealing with his conversion and the subsequent outrage.

I'm wondering what parts of my mod I should remove so as to make it compatible with this incoming content. I don't want to have anything that would either interfere or be made redundant by Holy Fury.
Here's the link : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1506406375
Thank you in advance.
 
The Three brothers: Zeus, Poseidon, Hades.

Would Pluto be a more appropriate name than Hades? Hades was the original name of he deity, but by the time of the Roman Imperial Era the name Pluton was used to refer to the ruler of the underworld in Greek, while Hades came to refer to the underworld. His Roman counterpart was Dis Pater (Rich Father); both names focusing more on his wealth aspect rather than the depressing death aspect, as gold and silver were also found in the "underworld".
 
AWESOME! I’m so bloody happy. This has made my day.

I do say though, er, the Stoics? Wouldn’t “the Platonists” make more sense, since Stoicism declined as an independent philosophy and was more or less absorbed by Neoplatonism? Especially makes sense since Neoplatonism itself survived in the Medieval period (e.g., Michael Psellos, Gemistos Plethon) and would be the cause for a lot of accusations of heresy and Hellenizing.

But I’m super excited. Great job, guys.
 
Wasn't there still some smatterings of the Hellenics left in the Mani Peninsula? While no where near enough to justify a religious change to the 769 area, it could be a third way to get into Hellenism by having your capital in that area and getting a semi-rare event.
 
Crusade rework, Africa clean up, and now Hellenism revival. I believe this belongs to a prophecy about the end of the world or something like that. Lol

Seriously though, it’s really cool you guys put so much effort to make something a portion of the community has so strongly been asking for. I’m not one of the people that this addition was designed for but it’s so well fleshed out and designed I will def be trying to make use of it in one of my games. It just looks too fun not to try a few times!

EDIT: Oh, also, the idea of a Hellenic Secret Cult sounds AMAZING and that will def be a goal of mine at some point!
 
Wasn't there still some smatterings of the Hellenics left in the Mani Peninsula? While no where near enough to justify a religious change to the 769 area, it could be a third way to get into Hellenism by having your capital in that area and getting a semi-rare event.
There were also Hellenes in Thrace when the Bulghars invaded. They partially sponsored Dionysianism there.
 
I think Romans should use Greek faces, they look more fitting. The Greek hairstyles also resemble the Roman hairstyles.
 
One day, I delved into my ancestral tree in my game to see about historical accuracy in the Byzantine empire. I looked at the tree and saw that my ancestors were once part of the Hellenic Religion. I wondered for this Patch. "Will they add something this inaccurate for history in the future?" "Am I able to change history this much?" I have an answer to that now. Considering i'm someone who plays a lot of cultures that can reform another religion rather it being Jewish or in general a pagan viking (which are my favorite of all times.) You guys actually did it... I can finally now play as the Greeks and now reform the religion to my standards. You never fail to disappoint paradox. And for that I thank you. Now I wonder though, will there be any changes to restoring the Jewish religion? Or will it still be the same mechanics of how they functions after restoring the Jewish religion. If it can happen to Hellenic , I'd assume there would be more variety in the Jewish religion too. Like able to sacrifice a goat or something to gain piety to spend on certain religious events or something.
 
One again Holy Fury has given me something I didn't know I wanted. I wasn't one of the people who wanted Hellenism brought into the game, but now I'm very glad it is in now! And the Reman Renascence is something I've wanted for a longtime! So, when do we get Holy Fury? :p
 
Can there be hordes of rampaging, Poseidon-worshipping Hellenic steppe nomads?
 
@Silfae

First, allow me to say, woo! I started reading and was pretty annoyed at first, thinking to myself, “all this for a long dead religion, but no love for a not really dead culture.” And then you gave us back Roman culture! Horray!

That said, have you guys gone back and touched up the Roman culture name files? Last I remember, there wasn’t much in the way of dynastic names, not to mention no religios names, and having the Roman culture names be Anglicized, when right next to the Greek names that are not, was kind of inersion breaking (Greek Konstantinos, but Roman Constantine rather than Constantinus). Also, I’m not sure, but I think there’s no relgion-specific Roman names at the moment.

And if you guys wanted to be really ambitious (and if Dalmatian is on the game, maybe you do), it’d be great to see some late Roman cultures, like Italo-Roman, Gallo-Roman, Afro-Roman, etc on the map in the Chucky start. :)

All that said, if all you did was de-anglicize the Roman names, I’d be thrilled!
 
So unreformed Hellenics have access to the Hermetic Society, but if we do not select Astrology upon reforming the religion, do we lose access to the Hermetic Society?
Haruspicy, Astrology and Dedicated Temple are unique Hellenic flavor, they are never lost on Reformation.
Seeing how Hellenism as a unique name for their religious head will all pagan religions be getting this treatment or only Hellenism and Germanic paganism. @Silfae
All pagan religious heads are getting a special name for variation.

I'm wondering what parts of my mod I should remove so as to make it compatible with this incoming content. I don't want to have anything that would either interfere or be made redundant by Holy Fury.
Here's the link : https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1506406375
Thank you in advance.
Giving it a quick look, I think it depends on what parts of it you prefer. Romans are getting special portraits, retinue, and cultural buildings, working the same way as any other culture, but if you find them lacking or wish to expand upon them, that could definitely be achieved without too much hassle via a mod.
The Three brothers: Zeus, Poseidon, Hades.

Would Pluto be a more appropriate name than Hades? Hades was the original name of he deity, but by the time of the Roman Imperial Era the name Pluton was used to refer to the ruler of the underworld in Greek, while Hades came to refer to the underworld. His Roman counterpart was Dis Pater (Rich Father); both names focusing more on his wealth aspect rather than the depressing death aspect, as gold and silver were also found in the "underworld".
Like I said, the gods' names will change depending on the culture of the Reformer. By default they use the Latin ones, but if you are Greek and Reform Hellenism, they'll switch back to the Greek versions.

Can there be hordes of rampaging, Poseidon-worshipping Hellenic steppe nomads?
Hm, it might be tricky for a nomadic ruler to get the option of converting to Hellenism (might be possible, I suppose...). But, if you pick the Seafaring Doctrine when reforming, Poseidon will indeed become your high god instead of Zeus.
 
Oh crappoli! :eek: I've been wanting this for year!

Honestly @Silfae, I usually wait until DLC is on sale before I get it but if you keep this up I'm not even going to be able to wait and I'm just going to straight up preorder it.