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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

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Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

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The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
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Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

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While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

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A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

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Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

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First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

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Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
As much as I have debated about Hellenism, the way you lot put it in the game is probably the best way. Ideally, this should make everyone happy. The Hellenic fans get to praise the old gods, there's a special difference for if you restore it as a greek vs. a latin so that you get a little extra immersion, and there's a game rule to flat out disable it.

I'm a little disappointed that there isn't an option to have a college of Cardinals type system for electing a religious head. I like having the religious head as my priest, but the randomly generated religious heads are absolute garbage in comparison to the worst popes the AI could elect. I'm not even kidding, most times the pope will have a 15-20 learning with some traits to boost it, I got three patriarchs in a row that had 4,2,5 learning respectively.

Would there be any possibilities of Orthodoxy getting touched up? As it appears right now, there's pretty much no reason for you not to swap to Hellenic as soon as possible as you can tweak it to your will, even if you have to deal with a revolt (Which is never a big deal since by the time I restore Rome I can levy 30k from my personal holdings and 50k from retinues). Nearly any doctrine combo for Hellenism will be better than Orthodoxy. Compare that to Orthodoxy where I can't excommunicate the viceroy of Egypt, even though he's a satan worshiping adulter since he and his patriarch are in it together.

Gonna swap to Roman culture though, the vanilla greek portraits don't look too good in comparison to those.
 
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All pagan religious heads are getting a special name for variation.
Ooooooh, that's a nice one!

Hm, it might be tricky for a nomadic ruler to get the option of converting to Hellenism (might be possible, I suppose...). But, if you pick the Seafaring Doctrine when reforming, Poseidon will indeed become your high god instead of Zeus.
I really like that too!
Do other pagan religions have the High God switch upon reform too?
 
I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall in the Paradox offices when they brewed this up.
I imagine it begun when someone suggested that they should add Hellenism as an afterthought, since they already added so many things for pagans.
And that it somehow snowballed from there, getting bigger and bigger, until what begun as a small idea ended up as comprehensive as this is now.
 
Are haruspicy and astrology hardcoded into the religion, IE we keep their mechanics even if we don’t choose those doctrines at reformation?
They are not hardcoded (in the sense that you can mod them not to remain regardless), but yes, by default Hellenics keep them.
Do other pagan religions have the High God switch upon reform too?
Yes, there are some Doctrines (or combinations of Doctrines) that can cause changes in the pantheon.
 
OK, let's see how many playthroughs I'll be having with Holy Fury:

1. Baltic pagans, testing out new fancy pagan stuff ------around 200 years
2. Any Catholic character, testing out new fancy Christian stuff ------around 200 years
3. Any character in a Random World, with random religions ------maybe even a full playthrough
4. Hellenic Roman Empire restoration ------full playthrough
5. Crusader King ------full playthrough
6. Enatic Clans + Warmongering + Bloodthirsty Gods -----200 years
7. Africa ------full playthrough

Farewell hundreds of hours of my life.
 
Yes, there are some Doctrines (or combinations of Doctrines) that can cause changes in the pantheon.
Will the religion description also be changed? If not, is it possible to assign a new one in an event?
What about the Scriptures, Evil God(s) name(s), Crusader name?
 
When Rome is reformed, will there be an option to stay entirely Christian and reject even the thought of a Hellenic revival? "The New Rome is a Christian Rome!" or something.
 
So we get Hermetics post reformation even with just the Hellenic specific doctrine and no Astrology? Awesome, this just keeps getting better! :D

Can there be hordes of rampaging, Poseidon-worshipping Hellenic steppe nomads?
I bet there'll be a mod to replace the Nahua Aztecs with Greek Hellenic Atlanteans!
 
Will the religion description also be changed? If not, is it possible to assign a new one in an event?
What about the Scriptures, Evil God(s) name(s), Crusader name?
Evil gods yes, the rest no, I'm afraid.

When Rome is reformed, will there be an option to stay entirely Christian and reject even the thought of a Hellenic revival? "The New Rome is a Christian Rome!" or something.
Yes, absolutely, you can dismiss the event and proceed to play as a Christian Emperor, just like usual. You will still have access to the Burning of Rome event (which is also optional) and to the Roman Renaissance decision (also optional), even if you are not Hellenic.

If it is not too much to ask, can you spoil some of new names for pagan religious heads?
I think there's a couple that have been spoiled already and are scattered in the forum; I'd rather wait for a future update before revealing more.
 
Will Coptic get localization to the Greco-Egyptian pantheon of the Ptolemies, if they are Hellenic?
 
Hm, it might be tricky for a nomadic ruler to get the option of converting to Hellenism (might be possible, I suppose...). But, if you pick the Seafaring Doctrine when reforming, Poseidon will indeed become your high god instead of Zeus.

Never underestimate the players.

Yes, absolutely, you can dismiss the event and proceed to play as a Christian Emperor, just like usual. You will still have access to the Burning of Rome event (which is also optional) and to the Roman Renaissance decision (also optional), even if you are not Hellenic.

Why would you burn Rome as a Christian?
 
Never underestimate the players.

Why would you burn Rome as a Christian?
Well, you are not burning Rome, you are burning the Vatican, as an Orthodox Roman Emperor that wants to assert dominance over the Papacy.
Or you could just be a lunatic.
I'm just saying, the option is still available... And those pesky temple holdings are still in the way...