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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

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Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

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The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
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Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

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While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

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A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

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Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

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First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

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Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
There are new commands that can be used by modders to remove god names, replace the high god or add new god names, yes.
Some changes will already happen on Reformation, depending on the Doctrines being picked.
Does this only support predefined localisation in the files or can you use a character name for example?, thinking of the Elder Scrolls mod, currently if your character becomes the ninth divine they are revered to as the canon Talos.
 
Does this only support predefined localisation in the files or can you use a character name for example?, thinking of the Elder Scrolls mod, currently if your character becomes the ninth divine they are revered to as the canon Talos.
That will definitely be possible.
 
This must be the first dlc that makes me more hyped about it at each dev diary. You guys are doing a great work with this.
 
Original Zoroastrian faith? Whats not original about the Zoroastrianism we currently have?
You can’t become a living god on earth (To my knowledge) and who doesn’t want to be pharaoh?

Zoroastrian => Incest => Pharaoh and their spouse => Kemetic faith
Again I say, who doesn’t want to be pharaoh! Plus you can do a whole event chain where the new Romans and new Egyptians have a war. Like how it was in history (from what I remember from history class)
 
If I uderstand it correctly, it will be necessary to change the culture to Roman (if Greek) before the reformation of religion to have the latin names of the gods.
Either that, or be an Italian Emperor.
 
Since I didn't get am answer earlier today about what sects a reformed Autonomous Hellenic would have, does that mean there will be a future dev diary for pagan sects?
 
Well damn. This is what I get for doing that Roman Empire run I've been putting off for years to pass time until HF comes out. Hopefully the update won't completely destroy my save, but I'm kind of expecting it to. Oh well. Great addition.
 
Haruspicy, Astrology and Dedicated Temple are unique Hellenic flavor, they are never lost on Reformation.
I am curious how it will be in the case of other religions, because the Norse lose the ability to float on rivers (they forget how!), without the appropriate doctrine chosen at the Reformation.
 
That will definitely be possible.

Well now we *need* a reformation option where the reformer can be added to the gods list as some kind of god-king or messianic figure :p
 
Personally I'm not crazy about the Emperor turning Hellenic upon reforming Rome, but since it's not like the AI ever gets that far I just won't use it and it'll be moot.

The idea of a Hellenic enclave forming in a smaller Mediterranean nation sounds like it could be a lot of fun, though.
 
So are the god names dependent on who reforms it or is it localization eg Greeks will always see Zeus Latins always see Jupiter?
Depends on the Reformer's culture.
Well now we *need* a reformation option where the reformer can be added to the gods list as some kind of god-king or messianic figure :p
Well...
 
Depends on the Reformer's culture.
How easy is it to add other culture names to Hellenism's Gods or other pagan Gods?
A simple event should do the trick?
 
So you'll have to trade in your improved succession law for an unreformed religion you basically can reform right away (assuming you've got 50 % MA and 750 piety) in a fashion enabling your old law, meaning you'll have to go e.g. Orthodox Primogeniture -> Hellenic Gavelkind -> Reformed Hellenic Gavelkind (assuming there's no "Force Primogeniture" feature) instead of having a character flag (or whatever, but a character flag seems like a decent option) that allows e.g. Orthodox Primogeniture -> Hellenic Primogeniture -> Reformed Hellenic Primogeniture?

I guess that is going on the "Stuff to fix" list for my personal mod, then...

This seems relevant to your issue:

To be clear on something, will flipping to Hellenic pre-reformation force me into gavelkind?


So there might not be anything you need to fix.
 
How easy is it to add other culture names to Hellenism's Gods or other pagan Gods?
A simple event should do the trick?
Yes, if you wish to mod other changes and variations, it is extremely simple.