Most of the events you are talking about used to be tied to owning one of the Roman Empires and being Christian (only a few were locked by culture), they have now been updated to work for Hellenics as well.
Perhaps you should simply open them up for anyone who owns those titles? I see no good reason not to.
First things first, thanks for updating Hellenism to be a proper playable religion. Now, there's something I wish to ask. Is it possible to start out as a custom character with the Hellenic religion?
Yeah I wonder this too, I see no reason why not so I would assume we can.
Looks very nice. I'll enjoy playing it, though would still have preferred developement resources to be spent elsewhere. Nevertheless it'll make quite a few people happy, which is always good.
With some modding changes (being able to do it as a copt and restoring ptolmaic egypt) I may play it. But I would much rather they had fleshed out some religions which weren't actually dead at this point. But done is done so now we got to focus on making sure they do as much good with the time they put into this as possible.
So Hellenists get so much new clothing, but our dear Cardinals in Rome still wears their bishop gear? That's not quite right.
Yeah I know...
*looks south at Egypt* - How about adding Ancient Egyptian religion?
More seriously, I wasn't convinced about adding Hellenism, but the dev diary changed my mind.
I am Horus the elder, I have come to for vengeance for the pharao, Osiris, and to restore the rule at Maat to this world, tremble before me sons of Abraham.
I would love that, well a cultural localisation for hellenic for copts would probably be enough.
Long-time lurker, but this DD is too hype not to sign up and chime in!
Will Roman-Cultured Emperors be able to reinstate (wisely or not) the Praetorian guard?
Mighty Rome shall finally undo all the mistakes of that fool Constantine!
The praetorian guard is in the game, they're just filled up with non romans and called the Varangian guard instead.
What about Hellenic provinces? The Mani peninsula in Southern Greece is often parroted on this forum as having been pagan in 769.
Just because someone says something on the internet doesn't make it true.
Paradox expansions should definitively have 1 piece of content each, which is secret until release.
This is an awesome idea.
oh, tangentially, are there any new supernatural events coming?
Please no, this is enough focus on non historical content for this DLC.
.Can other religious treasures work for Hellenic ? We all know that the ancient Romans recognized gods of other religions.
Most pagans did, polytheists should simply get to use artifacts of other religions at a reduced capacity. At least when unreformed. They should also have a chance of being converted by those artifacts.
Yeah, we need Druids, Merlin, King Arthur, Excalibur, the works. Throw it all in there. Camelot Kings!
That's closer to the ck2 era than any major worship of hellenic paganism is.
But Romans were not hellenistic, neither their religion...they took similarities between religious figures to push a fluid, non humiliating greek integration, but their pantheons were different.
Or this is an in-game reconstruction of what people thought "roman-hellenistic religion" was ?
Yeah this is actually not an unimportant thing. There are several written accounts of romans refering to the greeks as a weak people worshipping weak or false gods.
We need MOAR!
Ancient Hellenic culture + the ability to restore the Alexandrian Empire!
Ancient hellenic culture is greek, the alexandrian empire is e_persia.
Well, Greek culture is already a thing, and technically Alexander's empire is in-game as the Persian Empire. It's not all de jure and everything, but still.
A greek king pressing a claim on the empire of Persia.
He already is! If you're seen as a bad guy (sins, lunatic, cannibal, that kind of stuff) Arthur can be your Immortal Rival
Cool, is there a guy called MCLeod who can show up to stop you too? I almost never play with supernatural events on.
Now we may need some Arian Gothics to crash the new Hellenic Empire!
Well I 'm just joking.
Arianism survives as a major influence on the day to day practice and belief of Catholicism (it's one of reasons why common belief and church doctrine are so different). So really you are asking for catholic germans, sounds sort of like the holy roman empire.
Gladiator! Wanna see my prisoners fighting each other or against lions to the dead for their freedom though
I'd love to see this, should be linked to roman culture. And reviving gladiatorial combat should piss of the pope and require you to be cruel or something.
Priests are less likely to adopt Hellenism as their religion?
I would say unless they are sinful, especially lustful and hedonist, remember pagan priest can marry.
Make it non bad_priest theocracies excluded.
Oh those Ptolemies, wacky bunch
You mean the greatest and most influential hellenic empire (not counting rome as hellenic) of all time, whacky bunch.
As for evil 'gods' I think the closest the greeks got was typhoon and echidna
But the cult of Dionysus was actively persecuted in Rome.
This is so great! Lots of fun little things you're adding to this expansion! But it's unlikely I'll play Byzantine again... My last game - a few months ago now - was as a Byzantine Roman Empire and I still have headaches from constantly having to give viceroyalties out.
It'd be nice to be able set certain viceroyalisties to be automatically handed out.
But... as for dead religions... How about Zoroastrianism...? I know it's possible in the current game, but have similar events been added if you were to try to bring that back to make it easier / more flavourful?
Yeah it's sort of a shame that this dead religion now has more flavour than not quite as dead Zoroastrianism.
Or Can Holy Roman Emperor convert to Hellenism?
I thought the same when they said roman empires, but I am guessing it's roman empire or byzantine empire.
If I had to guess, to test this they just started the game in 1066 and vassalized every ruler they needed with console commands.
And it also shows that every Abrahamic vassal will revolt, not just the christians
Wow muslims have a problem with polytheists? I never would have guessed.
Jokes aside they should be twice as pissed as everyone else. Their main gripe with Christians is that they feel that the trinity is a bit to close to polytheism. IIslamic law is very permissive to other beliefs but polytheists are barely human in their eyes.
Small request: would you consider removing the facial hair from the old portraits of past Roman emperors?
The first one to actually keep a beard in real life was Hadrian. But almost every single emperor in the title history from Augustus and on is depicted with facial hair.
I know it's silly, but seeing Augustus with a beard kind of ruins the immersion.
Well at least moustaches, beards and clean shaven has been fashionable at times in rome but just a moustache has never been.
Yeah why not, it did fall out of mainstream practice much later than hellenic paganism. And they'll likely have to add it at some point to accommodate a imperator to ck2 converter.
will Sol Invictus be add with the Roman culture? If added, would it be as a Roman cult or a heresies because I'd like to be the official sun god of the Roman Empire.
Also maybe adding Mithraism
Perhaps if a roman cultured Zunist religion ruler owns most of the Zunist holy sites he could rename the high god to Sol invictus.
I'm not really sure about this. I mean it's great that you add flavour to the meme religion of CK2, but that took work that could have gone into making Orthodoxy more flavourful. It's kinda barren like the old Hellenism.
Yeah Like I have said before,
Since the gods' names change depending on whether you have Greek or Italian/Roman culture for Hellenic, presumably becoming Zunist with Roman culture will make that the cult of Sol.
Well adding removing names to the list is a global thing not a mere localisation, so you'd have to control a significant amount of zunism.
If anyone is wondering about arianism it's already in the game. See paulician or even Islam itself.
Eh Arianism is a heresy which leans to the side of polytheism, with christ and god being separate entities, islam leans to the other side. They are nothing alike except that they reject the trinity. In fact part of the great schism is because catholicism ended up being affected by arian beliefs. While formal doctrine is relatively free of it it has affected the beliefs of the common man in catholic and post catholic europe.
I bet there'll be a mod to replace the Nahua Aztecs with Greek Hellenic Atlanteans!
That'd be really cool. In a way way cooler than this.
Will Coptic get localization to the Greco-Egyptian pantheon of the Ptolemies, if they are Hellenic?
Yeah it'd be awesome, ptolmaic empire best hellenic empire.
Byzantium was pretty good, but under Rome was the best Europe had ever been.
You are underestimating the byzantine empire, it was probably the best roman empire. Not the best greek speaking empire though, that goes to the ptolmaic one.
If the Romans go pagan there should be an option for a Christian or Muslim to join each other's crusades or jihad. I've had games where a Christian adventurer conquered either maurentenia or the Arabian peninsula declaring a new empire. It's an epic thing.
Yeah at least muslims should be able to join christian crusades as long as they are against pagans, they shouldn't be able to get land out of it but other rewards, becauseunless you have missed it, muslims really don't like polytheists.
There could even be an event that if paganist provinces outnumber the abrahamic faith provinces they get an event where they get merged into a single abrahamic religious group.
Can a Catholic Emperor burn Rome? Just asking since it seems a great way to keep the Pope in line.
"The emperor was just having a bbq with his closest friends and family and whoops..."
I am sure a lot of holy roman empires have been tempted.
Would be cool if there were localized deity names for Coptic culture Hellenics as well.
Again I'd like this so much I am definitely modding it in if they don't add it.
Any non-Catholic Emperor can get that event.
Of you could let Catholics do it but then pin to blame on heretics.
Yes, those are the restriction. To use the Delve into Classics decision you must be a Christian Greek/Italian, have your capital in Southern Europe, control one of the Hellenic holy sites, and either be a scholar or insane.
Please add coptic to that, also why christian? Doesn't seem to be any reason for that, the legacy of hellenism is way stronger in places outside of Europe in this era. The persians and arabs are debating the virtues of Plato and soctrates.
No relocalization for Coptics, sorry.
What if we say please?
Yes, it is a shame, if I had had more time I might have done it myself so that other pagans could have it as a selectable Doctrine. The problem was that, unlike Haruspicy and Astrology, adapting Dedicate Temple was not just about changing a trigger or two, it required an extended rework.
Any change you could make it into a doctrine but make it one that is simply locked to this faith? That way at least modders have some of the ground work laid and then just have to fill in a lot of localisations.
I ask because this as a doctrine sounds way cooled than hellenism itself.
It depends on the Bloodline. There will be time in the future to discuss this in detail; as far as this specific example goes, it is a question of redundancy. If you have the Makedon Bloodline and restore the Empire, people will remember that it was the blood of Makedon (which was already well-known and prestigious) that restored Rome, whereas, if you are an upstart, you will found a Bloodline yourself.
But if you do it as a Makedon it will change and improve the Makedon bloodline right?
Original Zoroastrian faith? Whats not original about the Zoroastrianism we currently have?
It feels pretty flat, especially considering how much they have added to paganism in this DLC.
To be fair it does sound like something that would be in Hellenic legends.
I think it's from norse mythology and they're related so...
Whatever it was, it certainly wasn't about Satanism
No of course not because modern satanism is a 20th century thing. Nothing in this era is about satanism.
I was in the "Hellenism is not going to happen so let's stop talking about it" camp, and I'll say you're being pointlessly negative, dude.
Yeah I'm not to keen on the idea either but they have put the work in and we're not getting that time back into something else so we may as well try and make the most of it. Even if it's not what we'd have prioritized.
This looks like the best time to create a Graeco-Roman themed UI, with amazing marblework, columns, coloured pottery buttons, and mosaics. It could be exclusive to Hellenist religion, or it could also be used for Greek culture in general (because Byzantium).
Come on Paradox, we've had one each for Christian, Indian, Muslim and Pagan...and trade republics, for a very long time. I'd gladly pay for a mini-DLC that adds UI designs for each religion or religious group.
... This is how hellenism got removed last time, this is a dead religion. Be glad you get the chance to resurrect it, stop expecting it to get stuff that not even some of the regions which were actually important in this era have gotten.
But shouldn’t the other set of the gods be considered a heresy? Because the Roman variants on the Greek gods are more war like, and the Greek variants of the Roman gods are more diplomatic like. Then again that would be more culture based than religion based. So I guess the different names could be considered a heresy to the ruling culture?
That's not a bad point actually, when reforming hellenism, if you are latin you form latin hellenism, while heresies egyptian(/coptic) hellenism an greek helenism are created. And so on.
Several roman writers have made references to the greek gods as being other than the roman ones. Was't part of why Sulla disliked because he worshipped the greek gods?
That's not heresy. That was just another culture's manifestation of the Gods. Greeks weren't calling Romans "heretics," or vice versa. Christianity isn't the template of all religion-- this line of thinking is essentially incompatible with ancient thought. In ancient rhetoric Romans would write in Greek, and use the Greek names of their Gods.
No but they also didn't consider their gods and those of the greeks to be the same beings. It's not heresy because the greeks believe in other gods. But in game you could treat it using the heresy mechanic.
Why does Hellenic use the same Shield/Coat of Arms style as the other pagans? You gave African pagans their own style, which I approve of, but why not do the same for Hellenic?
Because there actualy were african pagans in this time period. Millions of them in fact. While there may have been as many as dozens hellenic pagans. Again stop asking for stuff for a dead religon which not even alive religions get. Zoroastrianism haven't got their own shield borders why would a dead religion get it.
It would make more sense for them to use even Christian style shields, it seems incredibly wrong that Hellenics are using the same style as the filthy Germanic barbarians.
This I can second.
And I just thought, if you're Pharaoh & you follow the ancient Egyptian religion, you'd only be allowed to marry your own family members!
What a challenge!
You could have hundreds of concubines though.
Wasn't Tyr usually identified with Mars? At least in Tacitus' Germania.
No, this isn't the point. We're not here to shit on other religions. Me pointing out one bigot doesn't give you the justification to "call out" their entire group.
Tyr has been linked with Zeus as far as I know, Tyr came from Tyz, Thyz Theus, Deus, simply means god, he was likely the allfather of the phanteon in the early versions.
Indeed, this will simply open up Paradox to getting screamed at to make Egyptian paganism playable, or Celtic paganism, or Arabic paganism, etc. etc.
Well they do seem more exciting than hellenic paganism to me. But I would rather they focus on things which was actually in this period.
The king of middle frankia shouldn't be able to convert to Judaism but it happens often
Perhaps this is somethign which should be dealt with instead?
though come to think of it, I have heard of the etymological relation between "Týr/Tíw" and "Zeus" (Jupiter) and "Deus"
Tyr Tyz, Thyz, Theus, Deus.
Also I heard someone sugggest Odin may have been imported from greece.
Odin Oden, Othen, Athen Athena.
We are talking a spearweilding god/godess of war and wisdom.
Like the Sunset Invasion or the Cult of Satan, right?
Three wrongs still doesn't make a right. We argued against all these things, and you can't let ahistorical stuff justify more ahistorical stuff, then we're going to be here in 6 months and you'll be saying "Just like Hellenic pagans in 769 right". This is quite litterally the slippery slop. Fallacy my ass.
God I know, right? Why give people more opportunities to have fun and play the game the way they want? They should stick to totally realistic features like immortality, getting impregnated by the devil, and the Aztecs invading Europe.
Read what I said above here. Also I don't mind that they implement these things. But I do mind that they put effort which could have gone elsewhere into them. It's not how I would have focused. But they already done it so this time it's to late to do something about it (Also I find hellenism a lot more palatable than satanism, I will likely keep hellenism turned on, if never actively pursue it).
I also really like the idea of Christians and Muslims joining up to combat the heathenry. This should definitely be an option.
Yeah that'd be awesome, but that should be able to happen even if it's not hellenic paganism, if the pagan group gets to powerful and the combined arbahamic groups get to weak they should be able to band toghether.
Any chance we get revivable Arianism too?
It's in the game it's just localized as Catholicism.
Is there a possibility to get Loki as head of the pantheon for Germanics?
How is this not already the case? Jokes aside, Loki is treated as an evil god in vanilla right? What's up with that.
This is really impressive. BTW, are You going to make similiar opportunity to Persians?
I would love to see the persian empire and zoroastrianism get some more attention down the line.
No, Zoroastrians were already given a process to restore their ancient religion to Persia.
Not like this they haven't.
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