• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

20180730093248_1.jpg


Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

20180730093553_1.jpg


The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
20180730093708_1.jpg


Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

20180730094033_1.jpg


While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

20180730094125_1.jpg


A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

Hellenics5.jpg


Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

20180730094306_1.jpg


First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

20180730094406_1.jpg


Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
Not necessarily and mainly they wouldn't be very good athletes after having been warriors a few times. PTSD missing limbs scar tissue, these things tend to mess things up.
Of course, I know it. But in Ellada (AFAIR) athletic competitions was substitute for warrior competitions, and champions were welcomed as warriors. (Also, truth to be said, in game timeframe, if you have PTSD, missing limbs or scarification that prevent you from being an athlete, you wouldn't be so nice warriors as well,)
Still, I like it better then having warrior brotherhood declared as "Olympian Champions". Why would Aphrodite, Hera, Hephaestus, Demeter or Hestia give a damn for dedicated warriors? I'd understand if it would be holy order dedicated to defend faith as a whole (not very... hellenic thought, but hey, it's 10th century, not a middle of antiquity), even if I don't like it; but for warriors who came together, drink, carousing, duel and socialise it's quite strange.
 
Of course, I know it. But in Ellada (AFAIR) athletic competitions was substitute for warrior competitions, and champions were welcomed as warriors. (Also, truth to be said, in game timeframe, if you have PTSD, missing limbs or scarification that prevent you from being an athlete, you wouldn't be so nice warriors as well,)
Still, I like it better then having warrior brotherhood declared as "Olympian Champions". Why would Aphrodite, Hera, Hephaestus, Demeter or Hestia give a damn for dedicated warriors? I'd understand if it would be holy order dedicated to defend faith as a whole (not very... hellenic thought, but hey, it's 10th century, not a middle of antiquity), even if I don't like it; but for warriors who came together, drink, carousing, duel and socialise it's quite strange.
Missing limbs perhaps but in many ways the battle experience outweighs the other impacts of being a veteran, I mean eventually it does catch up to everyone. But the same gut reactions that would make a soldier act in a way that ensured his survival in war may end with him killing a competitor if he tried being an athlete.
Athletes were often trained from young age, and once you threw them into battle they usually didn't return to being athletes meaning all that effort was petty much wasted.

Think of it more as the olympic game organizers having a VA function.
 
Well, every Hellenic citizen was a warrior anyway - it was a part of citizen obligations. Take Sparta; spartans preformed in Olympic quite adequatly, so they sent people who didn't fight in wars?
 
Well, every Hellenic citizen was a warrior anyway - it was a part of citizen obligations. Take Sparta; spartans preformed in Olympic quite adequatly, so they sent people who didn't fight in wars?
First of citizenship was far from universal in these states. The citizens formed a rather small upper class.
Secondly I don't find it very surprising that athletes may have been excepted from military service. Not to mention were all competitors free men? Or could slaves be athletes?
 
First of citizenship was far from universal in these states. The citizens formed a rather small upper class.
Yes; and everybody who was, was a warrior. Quite usually in wars slaves were armed and fielded with promises that survivors would be freed and gain citizenery.

Not to mention were all competitors free men? Or could slaves be athletes?
Olympic athlets? No, no way slaves could be athlets there. It was religious event, only freeborn men allowed. Actually, only Greek free man - Alexander himself was allowed only after proving his Greek ancestary (women, who weren't allowed even to see it, could give horses for equestrian part, and therefore be champions).

Secondly I don't find it very surprising that athletes may have been excepted from military service.
I never heard anything about it. Cowardry and unwilling to defend home city from enemies was among the best virtues of greek man; military service was a honor.
 
survivors would be freed and gain citizenery.
I don't doubt them being freed, I doubt very much they were made citizens.
I never heard anything about it. Cowardry and unwilling to defend home city from enemies was among the best virtues of greek man; military service was a honor.
Winning the games affair of state, sure you could take one man who may earn olympic victories of the martial training so he can focus on training to win the games. As I said earlier the training of an athelete and a warrior are quite different.
There were other roles who were exempted from military service, certain priests as I recall. As you said athletes also fulfilled a religious function.
 
Regarding the Pontifex Maximus, no, Temporal Religious Heads do not get religious clothing, though you will get something else that might be discussed in the future.
Do the names of pagan religious heads depend of the type of leadership chosen? Will a temporal Hellenic head still be called Pontifex Maximus? Will an autocephalous Germanic head still be called Fylkir?

Also, if Hellenism is reformed by a Greek, will the head still be called Pontifex Maximus, or something else instead, like Hierophant or Archiereus?
 
Do the names of pagan religious heads depend of the type of leadership chosen? Will a temporal Hellenic head still be called Pontifex Maximus? Will an autocephalous Germanic head still be called Fylkir?

Also, if Hellenism is reformed by a Greek, will the head still be called Pontifex Maximus, or something else instead, like Hierophant or Archiereus?
Religious head names are static, so unfortunately there is always only one available name for each.
 
Religious head names are static, so unfortunately there is always only one available name for each.
Does it have to be? Regular titles have dynamic names based on culture. I get it would be dependent on the culture of the holder (or rather his top liege) not on the culture of the reformer but still.
 
I see many will later want a loge for some aphrodite followers, especially if they wanna role play some female hellenic ruler - espcially if they created an enatic hellenic religion. The Warriors loge would fit well for some amazon flavour
 
Religious head names are static, so unfortunately there is always only one available name for each.

To clarify, in the case of autocephalous reformed germanic given, the religious head of each realm (presumably the top liege's court Chaplin) would be called the Fylkir (of that realm)?
 
Last edited:
To clarify, in the case of autocephalous reformed germanic given, the religious head of each realm (presumably the top liege's court Chaplin) would be called the Fylkir (of that realm)?
The holder of d_norse_pagan_reformed is always going to be named Fylkir, the holder of k_hellenic_pagan_reformer is always going to be named Pontifex Maximus, etc.
 
I think we can all agree that the Olympian Champions should have been named the Sacred Band instead.
Well then the myrmidons could have been the warrior lodge.
 
I think we can all agree that the Olympian Champions should have been named the Sacred Band instead.

Then it should only be accesible to homosexual characters. Might also have been an option for the Holy Order.

That would actually, no sarcasm, be an excellent and flavourful idea.

nd
 
-Empire rank viceroyalties
-essentially a combination of both forms of tributary states
-can be given to kingdom rank vassals
-upon death they stay in the new realm
-troops can be raised, but these rulers can join factions. Although independence factions will be far rarer. Also perhaps they could wage a war to flip their arrangement. Rping a western Roman Empire essentially
 
Religious head names are static, so unfortunately there is always only one available name for each.
The holder of d_norse_pagan_reformed is always going to be named Fylkir, the holder of k_hellenic_pagan_reformer is always going to be named Pontifex Maximus, etc.
For Islam and Germanic the Religious title: Caliph or Fylkir overrides your default secular title (King or Emperor). For a restored Roman Empire however I can't imagine the Emperor would be happy with the 'lesser' title.

Could it be made so that Emperor overrides Pontifex if Hellenic and Roman cultured?
 
He also usually one of the common choice to replace Charlemagne, by the AI, if there is an early rebellion.

But, since he's already a monk, isn't he celibate? Or is there a way to get rid of that?