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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

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Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

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The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
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Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

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While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

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A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

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Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

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First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

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Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
Just thought of a new question: If a Byzantine Emperor becomes secret Hellenic using the Delve into Classics decision will they still get the event when they restore Rome that causes them to announce it and get a reaction or will they only be able to reveal themself the normal way?
 
Soo... Will there be a CK2 to Imperitor: Rome converter someday, then?

I joke.


Kinda.

Somehow, they need to fill in the Imperial periods of the Roman Empire and Late Antiquity, between the 1st century through the mid 8th century AD. Perhaps an expansion pack representing at least parts of those centuries could be done with Imperator, but even then, I don't think they'll take it past the 5th century. Then, that leaves the late 5th through mid 8th centuries to be represented, which comprise a very interesting period; the Dark Ages. I would buy a standalone game representing that era, as well, but I hope it would end up being a little closer to Crusader Kings in feel than Europa Universalis games, although EU is still a great series. I had some of the best moments of gaming with Europa Universalis III, and I still play it, once in a while.
 
Hypothetically, after the 2.9 (I'm guess it's either going to be that or 3.0) patch, and someone either consoles or otherwise shenanigans them self to Hellenic, and DOESN'T have Holy Fury, what will the religion look like after you reform it using the old mechanics?

Also, are any of the events/mechanics of Hellenic tied to the DLC, of is it only the methods of conversion that are DLC locked and the rest being part of the patch?

Lastly, and I really hate being a nudge but this one is really eating at me, How will "Delve into Classics" work if you don't have secret religious societies turned on? From the description, it looks like it really relies on being able to form the Society of Hellenes to work. Last time I'll ask about that one, I swear.
 
If the player has set the Secret Cults rule to "none", the conversion from Delve into the Classics will be open rather than secret.
 
Unless the Hermeticists somehow invent time travel in your CK2 game I very much doubt there'll be a converter TO Rome. From on the other hand is more plausible. :p

That moment when you realize glitterhoof was Incitatus...
 
ngl what would be pretty cool would be if you could choose a school of classical thought alongside a patron deity - like the Neoplatonists/Orphists/Epicureanism..etc (in general some detail regarding the neoplatonists would be interesting, considering how influential they were in late Greco-Roman pagan thought ie Julian and Pletho. Maybe a decision to restore the academy?
 
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Speaking or rome 0 ad - 200 ad was generally peaceful. But during this peace the barbarians across the Danube really started developing more. Perhaps it could be fine to play as one of those in imperator.. and then switch to a Germanic pagan dynasty in ck2
 
Awesome, sure, it might not be historical, but non-historical stuff that are well worked out and balanced are actualy very fun to do sometimes :), also, who doesn't want to recreate a Hellenic Roman Empire spawing over most of Europe?

It's not entirely not historical. Emperor Julian gave it a try a few centuries before the 769 start date, and the reason he was inclined to do so was because he spent much of his early adulthood in Athens studying and becoming fond of the old ways.

It may not have happened again after Julian tried it... but the same conditions which led him to try it did still exist. You could still go to Athens and study up on the old ways, and one might still become fascinated by them and attempt to restore it if that person became emperor.
 
This might sound weird, but can we get the artwork developed for Hellenism in Crusader Kings II? Because from what I see, the artwork is very beautiful, and I'd love to use it as a desktop background. Most particularly the art for when you build temples.
 
Vis-à-vis changing the head of the Hellenic Pantheon upon reformation, is it possible to make any of the 12 Gods head or is it limited to only a specific few? Apologies if this has already been asked.
 
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This might sound weird, but can we get the artwork developed for Hellenism in Crusader Kings II? Because from what I see, the artwork is very beautiful, and I'd love to use it as a desktop background. Most particularly the art for when you build temples.

All of the art in CK2 is kept in a number of various easy to access folders, all under the parent folder /gfx. Most of the pictures that accompany the various pop up boxes are all in the folder /gfx/event_pictures, new ones added via DLC are found in the various/DLC folders using the same path, eg /DLC/dlc044.zip/gfx/event_pictures.
 
Soo... Will there be a CK2 to Imperitor: Rome converter someday, then?

I joke.


Kinda.

As much as I, and from what I'm reading several other people, would like that, and the fact that there are hundreds of years of time-gaps in-between the games, the devs have said that feature specifically is one of the things they don't want to do again because of how difficult it is to maintain and get working properly.
And don't get me wrong I think it's is fun to use for massive alternate history campaigns and I would in fact love to see something where we can go from ancient history all the way to the end of the World War or even end of the Cold war period, but I they are right, if anything better to leave that for after all the games using this game engine to stop being developed before even attempting it again in the future. (not to mention just getting a Victoria 3 at some point)

If anything I'd love to see something involving the three kingdoms period in China, that would be close to CK2 or EU4 and it would be a good setting outside of Europe for the kind of games they like to make.



All of the art in CK2 is kept in a number of various easy to access folders, all under the parent folder /gfx. Most of the pictures that accompany the various pop up boxes are all in the folder /gfx/event_pictures, new ones added via DLC are found in the various/DLC folders using the same path, eg /DLC/dlc044.zip/gfx/event_pictures.

On a related note, while slightly off topic, the converter is far from perfect but some assets are really accessible and easy to add into custom games so you'd probably have to make some changes to make things work well but it can be done for things like custom flags an heraldry for EU4 or getting catholic mechanics to work with heresies like Fraticelli and it's fairly easy but these are the kind of things a converter program just can't do effectively.
See custom Unified Roman Empire/Arch-duchy EU4 coats attached as an example.

(For reference I went Toulouse > Francia by Charlemagne proxy > HRE > +BYZ > ROM with HRE as main title for EU4 HRE mechanics)
 

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