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CK2 Dev Diary #102 - About that one dead religion...


Greetings.

Well, then... Holy Fury will make Hellenism playable.

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Now, now, let us be clear: there are not going to be any significant changes in the game’s history. Holy Fury will simply offer a couple of ways for a ruler to revive the religion when meeting some strict requirements.
This is no easy choice to make, of course, as doing so will likely make your character reviled by both vassals and neighbors alike and cause your realm to fall into a crippling civil war, but then again, if the cause is just...

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The first opportunity to restore Hellenism will come immediately after restoring the Roman Empire as a Greek or Italian ruler. Your character will receive an event shortly after becoming Emperor where he ponders about reintroducing the old state religion.
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Naturally, if you decide to do so, your Abrahamic vassals will assume that you have gone insane (which, I suppose, may very well be the case...) and likely band together in a large revolt to depose you. Be aware that defeat during this civil war could easily result in a game over: if your heir is also a pagan like you, the leader of the rebellious vassals will take over the entire Empire for himself and away from your heathen dynasty.
On the other hand, if you are successful, you will be able to remain in power and some of your less reluctant vassals might decide that embracing Hellenism is not such a ludicrous proposition after all.

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While not entirely connected to the Hellenic Restoration, I would also like to talk about a few other additions that have been slipped in the old Roman Empire revival event chain.
First of all, remember how the silly Pope tends to fill Rome with Church holdings, making the city not exactly palatable as a feudal capital? Well, worry no more! For now, after restoring the Empire (and provided that Rome has two or more temple holdings), your ruler will be given the chance to emulate Nero and clean up the place a bit. It might seriously hurt Catholic Moral Authority and the local peasants might get really upset about it, but, at the end of the day, aren’t those empty slots worth it?

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A second new little feature you might enjoy is the Roman Renaissance decision, which will become available after ruling the restored Empire for a few years, provided that you have moved the capital to Rome, belong to either Greek or Italian culture and are either Christian or Hellenic. This decision will allow your ruler to reintroduce Roman culture to the Empire. On a practical level, this will allow your realm to become more homogenous, as provinces and rulers belonging to any Latin culture will be very susceptible to switch to the new one and, if you are Hellenic, they will also have a chance to switch both culturally and religiously when embracing the new renaissance. On a roleplaying level, your characters will get swanky new togas to dress in.

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Now, let us go back to Hellenism proper. As I was saying before, there is a second way for a ruler to restore the dead religion, if conquering all of western Europe is too much of a hassle for you.
If you are a Christian, of either Greek or Italian culture, your capital is located in Southern Europe, you completely control one of the Hellenic Holy Sites (Thessalonika, Athens, Rome, Alexandria or Abydos), and you are interested in scholarly matters, or are insane, you will have access to a new decision: Delve into Classics.
If taken, this decision will allow a character to go through a short event chain during which you might become enamored enough with Hellenic mythology to decide to secretly convert to it and start your own Society of Hellenes. Whatever you wish to do after that in order to spread the religion will be up to you.

This is it for what concerns the means to resurrect Hellenism, but what about the religion itself?
You will be pleased to know that it is no longer an empty husk and has now actual flavor and mechanics to it.

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First of all, the religion is no longer pre-reformed: it can make use of the new Pagan Reformation feature just like any other form of paganism (and, as a small aside, you might be happy to know that reforming it as a Greek character will give all the gods their Greek names).
As for how the religion starts, Hellenism is now strictly monogamous (no concubinage), and does not have access to Pagan Subjugation. On the other hand, all Roman and Byzantine events previously restricted to Christians are now also available to Hellenic rulers (chariot races, Imperial Reconquests, etc.). Additionally, Hellenism starts having by default the effects of the Haruspicy and Astrology Doctrines, as well as having access to a new unique mechanic: temple dedication.

As a Hellenic ruler, you will be able to dedicate any temple holding within your realm to one of the twelve main deities of your pantheon. Doing so will give your ruler a temporary boost as well as activate a special building granting a permanent bonus to the holding’s province. These dedicated shrines are permanent, merely becoming inactive when under a ruler of a different religion. The kind of boost that they grant is naturally tied to the god they are being dedicated to.

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Finally, Hellenism has been given access to a few societies, though most of them, like the religion, will need to be recreated by a powerful ruler before becoming active.
Aside from having immediate access to Hermetics, Hellenics can now form the Stoics (a Monastic Order), the Bacchants (a Satanist society), and the Olympian Champions (a Warrior Lodge). Aside from their outlook, the Stoics and Bacchants work exactly as their Christian counterparts, with the one exception being that the Rank 4 County Conversion power of the Stoics will convert a province culturally rather than religiously.

Well then, this should cover most of it.


Note: As we are aware that the inclusion of the Hellenic religion might break immersion for some of our players, we have included a Game Rule to go with it. If the rule is turned off, it will disable the Delve into Classics decision and the Hellenic Revival event chain following the Roman Empire’s restoration, removing any chance of the religion reappearing in a regular game (though note that the religion might still spawn in Random World, depending on what settings you use when generating its history).
 
More of a minor update, but, since the topic was raised here: after talking about the matter internally, we have decided to move one of the Hellenic holy sites, from Abydos to Syracuse.

From a historical perspective, Syracuse was a fairly important city all the way until the earliest start dates (when its importance starts to wane), and, before Christianity, it was home to several notable Hellenic temples.

From a gameplay perspective, it reduces the clustering of Holy Sites in Greece and gives Italian rulers a more easily accessible holy site to use Delve into the Classics (without needing to wage war against the Papacy/ERE/Egypt).

I like that change and I think a good way to look at it is that this new Hellenic religion is a fusion of the old Greek and Roman beliefs, so Syracause makes perfect sense in that regard and is a welcome step since now you don't have to go to war with the pope in Italy to start the cult.

That said it also makes me wonder if their are other potential historic sites that would work for the Italian peninsula (the Etruscan religion keeps popping up in my mind but I can't think of any notable holy site candidates for them and considering how it was regards for it's time it seems like it would be a heresy at best).
 
More of a minor update, but, since the topic was raised here: after talking about the matter internally, we have decided to move one of the Hellenic holy sites, from Abydos to Syracuse.

From a historical perspective, Syracuse was a fairly important city all the way until the earliest start dates (when its importance starts to wane), and, before Christianity, it was home to several notable Hellenic temples.

From a gameplay perspective, it reduces the clustering of Holy Sites in Greece and gives Italian rulers a more easily accessible holy site to use Delve into the Classics (without needing to wage war against the Papacy/ERE/Egypt).
Disappointing, but understandable since so many where complaining I guess. :(
 
More of a minor update, but, since the topic was raised here: after talking about the matter internally, we have decided to move one of the Hellenic holy sites, from Abydos to Syracuse.

From a historical perspective, Syracuse was a fairly important city all the way until the earliest start dates (when its importance starts to wane), and, before Christianity, it was home to several notable Hellenic temples.

From a gameplay perspective, it reduces the clustering of Holy Sites in Greece and gives Italian rulers a more easily accessible holy site to use Delve into the Classics (without needing to wage war against the Papacy/ERE/Egypt).
Sounds wonderful!

I'm gonna keep Gibraltar as the site for my dedicated temple to Hera!
 
Didn't the names "camp of mars/field of mars" remain in use in eurppe for places whrre soldiers paraded? I mean, we've got a champ de mars right now here in paris, france and last i checked we're not hellenic.

Indeed. Christian states could absolutely invoke the names of Hellenic deities in a secular manner. For example, in most Romance languages, the days of the week are named after various Hellenic gods (as opposed to Germanic gods in English).
 
Yes, that is the principle of the thing. The gods' names were still used in the vernacular in Italy long after the religion had disappeared; various Camps of Mars were still known as such (though their function changed). It would be more of a cultural reference than a religious one.
 
And here we are again, ready to read about some aspect of Holy Fury/2.9 which is going to rise our love even more. :)
 
I just came across this news today, so I had to make an account here. Anyways, beyond excited! Thanks Paradox!

Question:

If we have a currently running game and have already have restored the Roman Empire, are all these features compatible? Do they fire upon loading the save or do we have to start a new game?

Thanks!
 
Is the Orthodox religion going to receive some buffs or changes too? No great holy wars and generally having little effect by having it makes it tough to stick with it especially when almost every other religion has some uniqueness to it. Catholics have the Pope, eastern religions have many different buffs e.g. Hindu morale buff and Jain stability, Muslims offer practically a new government and I could go more into detail but the idea is there. Miaphysite is rather weak too, Nestorian as well but...when do we ever see that religion remain in game? Hopefully the Orthodox religion gets some buff to make it a better choice than the clearly more interesting Hellenism.
 
Didn't the names "camp of mars/field of mars" remain in use in eurppe for places whrre soldiers paraded? I mean, we've got a champ de mars right now here in paris, france and last i checked we're not hellenic.

This.
I visited Rio de Janeiro's Copacabana fort, and they also got an area called Campo de Marte (Camp of Mars). I guess it is a thing in Latin countries, and could happen in a Roman renaissance too, even if christian.
 
They do, even before Reformation.
- do unreformed zunist retain access to Hermetic too?

Religious head names are static, so unfortunately there is always only one available name for each.
- i hope Slavic one is Vozh and not Zhrets or something...

Also will hellenic crusader trait will be renamed to something else? It would be weird to have latin crusaders with trait named after greek god...
 
This looks like the best time to create a Graeco-Roman themed UI, with amazing marblework, columns, coloured pottery buttons, and mosaics. It could be exclusive to Hellenist religion, or it could also be used for Greek culture in general (because Byzantium).

Come on Paradox, we've had one each for Christian, Indian, Muslim and Pagan...and trade republics, for a very long time. I'd gladly pay for a mini-DLC that adds UI designs for each religion or religious group. :D
I'd pay for this. :rolleyes:
 
Heheh that bring back lot of memories.
 
I honestly had no idea this was a thing. Where would I find it while use8ng my phone?
I'm not sure exactly as I've never used the browsed this on a mobile device, but in the standard browser it's right above the first post on a page, right below the Sort and Thread Tools options. So maybe somewhere near there.
 
That said it also makes me wonder if their are other potential historic sites that would work for the Italian peninsula (the Etruscan religion keeps popping up in my mind but I can't think of any notable holy site candidates for them and considering how it was regards for it's time it seems like it would be a heresy at best).

Orvieto: Tarquinia, the 'capital' of the Etruscans in a spiritual sense. Volsinii, more of a political capital with the main Etruscan forum and an Etruscan predecessor to the Capitoline Temple. The necropolises in this region serve it well for the Etruscans too. All these located in one convenient province for Etruscan civilization's flourishing urban cult and simultaneous reverence of necropolises.

Napoli: Site of Lake Avernus, which the Romans believed to be a portal to the underworld. In Roman myth, both Aeneas and Odysseus used this lake to enter the underworld (though the Greek version is speculated to have several places in Italy, Odysseus uses a river in Epirus instead. Italiot Greeks later associated with Avernus anyway), and the Roman Hercules used it as well. It is almost undoubtedly holy to the Etruscans as well, whose settlement of Capua was relatively nearby until the Samnite conquest of the city cut them off.