CK2 Dev Diary #103 - Long live the King!

[Silfae]

Hey Silfae, could you kindly show us the requirements for the coronation ceremony? I am wondering if you need to be at peace and if only adults can be crowned

You need to be at peace, or have been uncrowned for several years.
As for age, the ruler needs to be at least 11; to be able to perform a coronation before 16, the child must either be ambitious, quick/genius or willful and the regent must like him enough.

If your Anti-Pope gets turned into a Pope, does your "crowned by" trait get upgraded?

No, once set, it remains as is. It is more convenient for a ruler to press the Anti-Pope's claim first as then the new Pope will likely already love him and request the cheapest price for a coronation.

If you ask the pope to crown you, and he comes with (for you) ridiculous request. So you say no I would rather be crowned by my minor bisshop. I expect the pope is not happy when you do this. Does this have some consequences, like for example (I know it is though) excommunication or something bad.

Nothing so extreme, but Popes and powerful vassals do indeed get upset if a ruler snubs them for a cheaper priest.

What determines a "powerful bishop", just highest title rank? What if there are no country/duchy level bishops? What if there is an empire level bishop, that's sort of even higher than the pope's title; is that acknowledged in some way? Are powerful bishops and/or the pope more likely to do your bidding if you are their ruler (and thus have more direct power over them)?

A powerful bishop within your realm, independent theocracies are not taken into account. "Powerful" means either Count-tier (or above), Cardinal, or Anti-Pope. If there is none in your realm, the option is simply not available.

Can we do a Napoleon though? Out of the time period, but a strong enough conqueror could force the pope hand, that would make for an interesting dynamic.

Under certain rare circumstances, it is a possibility, though the aftermath is not going to be pretty.

Do Fratcilli get coronations?

Good question, yes, Fraticelli do indeed get coronation, since gameplay-wise they are extremely close to Catholics. It completely slipped from the Dev Diary.

What happens if you decline their requests though? Can you try again immediately? is there any penalty?

There is no penalty, but there is a cooldown on the decision, so you will need to wait a few months before trying again.

 

[Silfae]

This adds so much flavor...though I wonder how long it'll be before a "Pope demands YOUR lands before he'll crown you" bug pops up.

Depending on where you own lands, that might indeed be the case, by design.

What is the cheapest price when asking the Pope?

Scaled money.

 

[Silfae]

If I'm a king and become an Emperor, do I get another coronation?

No.

Say you ask the Pope to crown you and you reject his outraging demands. Can you then apoint an Antipope, wage war on the Pope to crown your candidate, and ask again the Pope (who now is your guy) to crown you?

Yes.

 

[Silfae]

While very cool for the player, I'm not sure how I feel about this for my vassal kings. I don't want my vassals giving their (my) land away, changing their laws, or fighting in arbitrary wars just to get a crown trait/negate an opinion malus. I could see this creating a bit of chaos in a large realm with lots of king vassals.

When it comes to donating land that you own, it is something that only Popes ask to only Emperors and only about historically-held Papal lands (mostly central Italy), so you do not have to worry about vassal Kings giving away pieces of your realm. On the other hand, when it comes to donating land, the Pope will not care if you own the land directly or not. If you do not own it directly though, he will ask for a vassal transfer rather than for a title transfer (so for example, at the 1066 start, the Pope might ask the HREmperor to give him Matilda in exchange for the crown, which will turn her into a vassal of the Papal State).

So based on corrections made on previous pages of this thread this mechanic will work only on Catholics and Fraticelli Feudal rulers of King rank or superior. Right? No Cathar, no Waldesian, no Lollard, no Merchant Republic of King tier? Is there any malus for being a woman when you receive the crown? Or maybe a worse negative modifier for being a woman and uncrowned?

Yes, Catholic and Fraticelli only.
As for women, there's a couple of flavor events during the coronation ceremony, but it works largely the same; no additional malus.
Coronations are only for Feudal landed rulers (no viceroyalties, no merchant republics, etc.).

@Silfae
Great DD!
Some questions :
1. What if the most powerful cleric in your realm is your prisoner when you start a coronation events chain?
2. If you're an Emperor and have an uncrowned vassal king - will this make revoking their title easier?
3. If your title is usurped and then you recover it - will a new coronation be needed?
4. Likewise, if you have 2 or more kingly titles and you loose the one for which you were crowned - do you need a second coronation? Likewise, what if you change your primary title?
5. If a non-Catholic ruler converts - is there a chance of free coronation or a gift of a crown from the church? As an incentive to convert.
6. Any special circumstances for the kingdom of Jerusalem? Like getting a dislike from the most pious people for presuming to take the title that can only be held by Jesus? Historically Godfrey of Bullion refused the title, because he believed that only Christ can be the true King of Jerusalem.

1. If imprisoned, incapable, etc. the priest will just be considered unavailable (before the chain starts). Given that the ceremony does not last for very long, it is unlikely for something to happen to him before the end. Unless you are particularly unlucky and he dies before the end (in which case you get notified and the coronation is cancelled), the coronation will continue to the end.
2. No.
3. No, once you have been crowned and have received the Crowned by X trait, that's it for that specific ruler.
4. Again, no, just one coronation per ruler. It was discussed if we wanted to make it once per King/Emperor title, but it was decided that it would have become either frustrating or spammy.
5. No. That could have been nice, but unfortunately no time for something like that. Mass Conversion still has its separate post-conversion flavor and perks.
6. Not specifically for the Kingdom of Jerusalem, but, once a Crusade is over, if a Crusader Kingdom is established, the first King gets a free Papal Coronation.

@Silfae What happens if my Byzantine emperor (in a fit of madness) decides to become Catholic? Does he need to get crowned? Will the Coronation malus apply from conversion, or from when he ascended to the throne?

Yes, any Catholic King or Emperor qualifies.
If I recall correctly, it should be from conversion. The ticking modifier is handled by a hidden variable checked yearly.

Will there be wartime crowns visible on portraits for rulers leading troops/wearing armor?

Crusader Kings have a chance to spawn a special crown that, if worn, is shown when they are leading troops. I believe Snow Crystal leaked it yesterday?
There are other similar special helmets that work in the same way, though I would not define them as "crowns" visually.

 

[Silfae]

@Silfae
Since my one sentence questions usually get drown in other waves of comments, I might as well do more question list.
1) How does this affect the situations where you create completely new kingdom yourself (as a catholic), nothing special and you just run the event after creating the kingdom?
2) Since there is smith create jewels option in decision, will there be more variables for the crowns so they dont all look the same? (for newly created kingdoms and kingdoms without special crown)
3) Another crown question, will we be able to create some other unique crowns like the Crown of Saint Wenceslas used for crowning Bohemian kings? (I know it was created in 14th century, which is kinda late for the game, but it was based on previous Premyslid crown and creating unique crowns specificaly for certain land was kinda the usuall procedure when realm got really strong and the smith option doesnt really represent it)
4) What happens with the crowned trait if you change religion?
5) What if you are a king of some realm for already 30 years and decide to convert to catholicism, do you suddenly get malus for not being crowned?

1) If it is your first Kingdom then, yes, after creating it, the decision to organize a coronation will become available.
2) 3) Generic crown artifacts remain unchanged; special crowns with specific visuals are rare kinds of artifacts, usually tied to very specific occurrences (such as founding the HRE).
4) It should remain for the current ruler.
5) No, the modifier starts ticking from the next year forward.

Ah, cool. Any chance we can get an example of what a Papal demand might be if the Pope likes you a lot? Just some money?

If the Pope likes you a lot, money is likely going to be the request.
Otherwise it can be something like changing your realm's Investiture Law, or granting him independence, then moving forward to the various types of wars and land grants.

 

[Silfae]

Hi, Silfae. It's very cool that the crown could influence the portrait. I have one question about priority.
"Crowned by X" trait shows your cultural crown in your portrait. "Augustus" trait offers you a laurel for your portrait. When you equip the special crown artifact, the crown will appear in you portrait. But while I have two of previous-mentioned, which one will appear in my portrait? If I equip the special crown with "Augustus" trait, does a laurel still sit on my head?

All special crowns are on a single separate layer; if you wear a special crown, it will always override the cultural crown. In the special case of Augustus the character should have an equal chance of wearing either the laurels or the other special crown that he has equipped.

 

[Silfae]

The Roman culture has a golden band of its own for Emperor-tiers, though somewhat less fancy than the golden laurels.

 

[Silfae]

No, that is a generic crown.

 

[Silfae]

It is an intrigue decision, you decide when you wish to ask for a coronation.

 

[Silfae]

No, one coronation per ruler.

 

[Silfae]

Some are historical some are ahistorical.

 

[Silfae]

King/Emperor-tier Catholic rulers that are uncrowned will not wear a crown until after going through the Coronation; Petty Kings do not get access to coronations and keep wearing the usual Duke-tier garnment, as they already do in game.