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CK2 Dev Diary #103 - Long live the King!

Greetings.

Today we will put Pagans aside, go back to good old Catholics, and explore one of the new features coming for them with Holy Fury: Coronation Ceremonies.

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With this expansion, succeeding to the throne of a Catholic Kingdom or Empire will not be a simple matter of gaining the title itself. The new ruler will need to organize a Coronation Ceremony (via new intrigue decision) and be recognized as legitimate by a notable member of the Catholic Church.
If a Catholic ruler fails to be officially crowned, he will see his popularity slowly fade away each year, as his vassals grow more and more restless under what they perceive as an illegitimate King.

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Coronation is divided into two phases: preparation and ceremony.
During the preparation, the ruler will decide whom he wishes to be crowned by, he will meet the Church’s demands, and invest money to organize the ceremony. In the second phase, the ruler will host the ceremony itself, interacting with guests and ultimately receiving his crown.

When organizing a ceremony, a Catholic King can choose between three possible options when it comes to officiant priests: he can be crowned by a low-status theocratic vassal within his realm, by a powerful theocratic vassal within his realm (such as a Cardinal, Antipope or Prince-Bishop), or by the Pope himself. Catholic Emperors who fail to enact the Free Investiture succession on the other hand will be limited in their selection only to the Pope.
While being crowned by a local Bishop is a lot less prestigious, it is also much cheaper, as higher-ranking members of the Church will be prone to make outlandish requests, especially if they dislike the ruler requesting them to officiate his coronation.

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Requests may vary a lot, especially when it comes to the Pope: the Holy Father might ask you to change your realm’s Investiture laws, wage war against an Excommunicated ruler on behalf of the Papacy, or to restore some of the Central Italian provinces to the Holy See.
Be sure to be in good relations with the Pope before asking for a coronation if you wish to receive a more tolerable offer.

Once the demands of your chosen priest have been met, you will be able to select a budget for your ceremony which will determine the kind of coronation you will receive, the kind of flavor events tied to it and the number of guests participating in it.
An extravagant coronation is a prestigious event to which all your vassals, courtiers and even neighboring Christian rulers are invited, a secluded coronation is a private feast to which only your Council will have access to.

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Once the ceremony has been concluded, your character will receive a specific trait tied to the priest that crowned him, as well as retain any additional perks granted by the flavor events experienced during the feast leading up to the coronation.

You might have noticed from the screenshots that this new mechanic affects character portraits as well: Catholic Kings and Emperors that have not been crowned will no longer wear the high-tier headgear in Holy Fury, defaulting to the Ducal band instead until their rank has been officially recognized by the Church (naturally, if you do not own Holy Fury, Catholic Kings and Emperors will wear the appropriate gear by default as before).

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This is not the only portrait-related addition though: Holy Fury will bring to the game a series of special crown artifacts that will be visible on portraits whenever the characters are wearing them. Most of these artifacts can only be used when the character meets certain requirements and they are often tied to a specific title rather than a character’s dynasty.

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And this should be about it for this week.
 
If Catholicism became heresy of Fratichelli, do new Fratichelli Pope make coronations? Or it is locked by Catholics regardless?
Silfae already mentioned fraticelli will also have coronations, I'll try to find the post and put it here later.
edit: found it
Good question, yes, Fraticelli do indeed get coronation, since gameplay-wise they are extremely close to Catholics. It completely slipped from the Dev Diary.
 
While very cool for the player, I'm not sure how I feel about this for my vassal kings. I don't want my vassals giving their (my) land away, changing their laws, or fighting in arbitrary wars just to get a crown trait/negate an opinion malus. I could see this creating a bit of chaos in a large realm with lots of king vassals.
Welcome to Feudalism!
 
Pagan ones yes, but what about the Holy Roman Emperor crown while being the King of France? The Crown of the Holy Roman Empire should serve to give you a claim to the throne of the HRE if it's in your possession, while at the same time infuriating everybody within the current Holy Roman Empire. Their beloved Crown is in the hands of a French? Absurd!
Having the crown of a title you do not own makes you a thief - not someone to be respected.
Wearing it without a coronation would make you a laughingstock... And a coronation without a single of the vassals of the title you are claiming, would be rather silly, no?
 
Will HRE rulers be called "king of the romans" prior to the coronation?

Courtesy Titles would be a nice addition, especially for heirs to kingdoms.

This would be similar to the title of Cardinal, where the heir to a title is always styled in a particular way, but for gameplay purposes, without necessarily accompanying a landed title.

For example, the heir to the throne of France would be styled the Dauphine, regardless of any landed title actually held.

This could be implemented easily with generic titles, such as Crown Prince, at first and fine-tuned over time.
 
Courtesy Titles would be a nice addition, especially for heirs to kingdoms.

This would be similar to the title of Cardinal, where the heir to a title is always styled in a particular way, but for gameplay purposes, without necessarily accompanying a landed title.

For example, the heir to the throne of France would be styled the Dauphine, regardless of any landed title actually held.

This could be implemented easily with generic titles, such as Crown Prince, at first and fine-tuned over time.
The heir to the kingdom of Castile/Spain is called the Príncipe de Asturias.

I don't know, those things look like nice additions, but maybe they can be a bit confusing if you don't know what they mean.

Edit. Spanish Monarchy has another oddity. The title Prince or Princess is reserved for the heir apparent. So the heir is called Príncipe/Prince and his brothers aren't princes, but Infante (in both English and Spanish, English kept the Spanish word for it). The current Princess of Asturias is called Princess Leonor and her sister is Infanta Sofía.

Edit 2: And to be correct the HRE should only be able to be coronated by the Pope. That would make the tensions between Emperor/Pope a lot more interesting and historical.
 
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does your rank matter when you get crowned?

all Holy Roman Emperors were suppose to be crowned by the pope, but other Kingdoms like France and England were often crowned by Archbishops

is it bad to be crowned by a powerful bishop if your an emperor, but acceptable if your a king?
 
does your rank matter when you get crowned?

all Holy Roman Emperors were suppose to be crowned by the pope, but other Kingdoms like France and England were often crowned by Archbishops

is it bad to be crowned by a powerful bishop if your an emperor, but acceptable if your a king?
If you are an emperor with lots of vassals, you probably need that pope bonus to hold the empire together, and you will also be likely to have enough power to have something to offer the pope. On the other hand a petty king with 2 vassals would be unlikely to have the means to convince anyone, and wouldn't really be in need of any bonus.
 
How will the coronation of Charlemagne / Carloman as emperor proceed? Will we get Baptism, Christmas, Easter Christian events? It would be nice to pick a godfather for my heir...
 
I think Coronations should be only for independent kings. If you swear fealty to another you are not really a king. Maybe I would make an exception for the king of Bohemia for historical reasons, but that would be it.
A king is a king is a king. Just because the HRE was the only catholic empire in history does not mean that other ones cannot have vassal kings that are actual kings and not glorified dukes.
 
A king is a king is a king. Just because the HRE was the only catholic empire in history does not mean that other ones cannot have vassal kings that are actual kings and not glorified dukes.
Why do you think a vassal of the HR-emperor should deserve a coronation?
Coronations are held when there are no overlord other than God.
 
A king is a king is a king. Just because the HRE was the only catholic empire in history does not mean that other ones cannot have vassal kings that are actual kings and not glorified dukes.
Although it raises the question of th3 stem duchies, which have been teased by snow crystal. Called duchies, functionnaly kingdoms. Probably shouldn't have corronations.
 
A king is a king is a king. Just because the HRE was the only catholic empire in history does not mean that other ones cannot have vassal kings that are actual kings and not glorified dukes.
That's my point, actually. A king is a king, someone who swears fealty to another is not a king. The HRE didn't have vassal kings either. For the longest time the king of Bohemia was the Emperor, so it wasn't an issue at all. But when they voted Austria it created an unprecented situation, where the kingship of Bohemia and the emperorship went to different people, but there couldn't be any other kings inside the Empire. Bohemia was an exception, not the rule.

The duke of Brandenburg tried to become a king for a long time, and he became king for his holdings outside the Empire, king in Prussia, but not a vassal king under the Emperor, but this game doesn't model dual vasallage well.
 
Awesome !!!
Will you make it so we can craft/smith those special artifacts ourselves? Like maybe when you smith a sword or something, if you do certain things, if you meet certain requirements and if you are lucky enough, you will get a TIER 5 artifact, instead of 4 which is currently the maximum for crafted items. This would allow for some very special, personalized and legendary dynastic regalia as sort of a final award for all your great deeds and achievements

also this is another thing that I'd like to see in the game, even though it has nothing to do with this Dev Blog: more buildings. Most major overhaul mods add several new buildings, and I just think it's one of those things that are lacking in this game. We definitely don't have enough buildings. They add a bit of flavor and a sense of improvement and currently building tall isn't exactly the best way of playing and I think that adding more buildings would help. Check out Flogi's Building Mod if you need inspiration or ideas for this
Also maybe like a way to see your city and castle change, like a visual representation of your improvement. I know that currently, the "city" on the world map gets bigger the more advanced that particular province is, but I'd like more visual representation of this. Just an idea ;)
 
I think Coronations should be only for independent kings. If you swear fealty to another you are not really a king. Maybe I would make an exception for the king of Bohemia for historical reasons, but that would be it.
I think maybe kingship should be more of a point of contention for vassals and emperors, maybe something like how the Game of Thrones mod does it, but if a king-in-all-but-name gets powerful enough they should definitely be able to call themselves kings no matter what their overlord says.
 
I think maybe kingship should be more of a point of contention for vassals and emperors, maybe something like how the Game of Thrones mod does it, but if a king-in-all-but-name gets powerful enough they should definitely be able to call themselves kings no matter what their overlord says.
I don't think you can become a king while being a vassal in the AGOT mod either, but I haven't played it for a couple of years. You have to declare yourself independent and then become a king. You can do it while at war for independence, but that's it I think. You're locked in Lord Paramount status (king tier) while being a vassal. You aren't called king while being a vassal of the Iron Throne.

My example was precisely that, the Duke of Brandenburg became more and more influent as time went by and even after being King in Prussia he was like in a personal union status. Duke of Brandemburg and King in Prussia, with Prussia being outside of the Empire. He wasn't a vassal king of the Emperor, he was a duke vassal in the Empire and king outside of it. If someone as powerful as the Duke of Brandenburg had to wait until the Empire dissolution to be a full king I don't see vassal kings happening in this time period.