CK2 Dev Diary#26: Considerable Converter Capabilities

[Sopbucket]

By any chance, is there a special trait for converting over a spawn of Satan?

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[Lord Cuddlesworth]

Because my original question demanded an answer but no one else did.

Can't fault that logic.

 

[Rip Off Productions]

By any chance, is there a special trait for converting over a spawn of Satan?

View attachment 210380 ​

I'd imagine that you'd probably only get all three possible trait slots filled in with a bunch of the "negative"(or at least "awesome but with a drawback") traits, like Sinner, and cruel, and so on based on what kind of Satan-spawn you were

 

[Sopbucket]

Midas Touched, Genius, and Possessed is my guess at what he'll get. Apparently those are all in there!

Just tried exporting the game to the current EU4 build, it turns out the guy is 140 and dies within a month. The game is taking his birthday and interpreting it as the date he was inaugurated, thereby adding a few more years onto him. Might end up having to play the game for a few more years so his heir (who is also a Midas Touched Genius) can take over.

 

[Atlantians]

It's a cool idea, but it's outside the scope of this converter update. It's really outside of the scope of the converter itself since it doesn't really touch Asia.

@Darkrenown, I love you, you are great, but would you please reconsider your view here?

It is within the scope of the converter (though might be too late to add now), because:

1) The Mongols are in CKII, and were a major part of Chinese History.

2) The Mongols directly controlled and conquered Chinese territory after many successes within territory in CKII.
Sources:

3) Western Chinese frontier territory and Chinese tributaries are already in CKII, so the Converter actually directly influences Asia, and China.

4) The silk road connected both worlds and massive changes in the west would have influenced the east.

In light of this, please randomize the converted worlds based on CKII events!

These options could be the basis for at least 6 scenarios for Asia:

1) No Mongols, weak Europe: Song China.

2) No Mongols, strong Europe: Tang China.

3) Weak Mongols: Song and Jin split China, Mongols only in Mongolia and whatever in CKII.

4) Moderate Mongol success: Song and Yuan split China.

5) Successful Mongols: Yuan China.

6) Successful player controlled Mongols: China is part of converted Mongols, but very high autonomy and high revolt risk.

7) Collapsed but successful Mongols with a weak Europe: Ming Dynasty as is the case now.

Each version of China having the Mandate of Heavan and Chinese-ideas/Ming-ideas as the inspired idea set for each. With the Yuan maybe having an idea or two based on the Horde idea group.

Then you could also do all sorts of 'split Asia' variants with China just being all the sub-states independent from each other, or sometimes having Ming, Song, Tang, and Yuan having the separate sub-states as vassals but not integrated.

 

[Rip Off Productions]

6) Successful player controlled Mongols: China is part of converted Mongols, but very high autonomy and high revolt risk.

but it could also be explained that the Mongol's success in Europe was because they DIDN'T conquer China having instead focused on the West, allowing a strong Song, Tang, or some other non-historical Dynasty China free of Mongol invasion and subjugation.

At best you could have a Mongol Dynasty rule China, but not have it be an integrated part of the Mongol Empire.

in the end, while I agree that the events of CK2 should effect China and the rest of the Far East, it is simply to complex a thing to have included until the time that those regions themselves are part of CK2; something that may never happen, or if it does it would be CK2's final epic DLC before the work on CK3 starts(where China will hopefully be included from the start)

I mean you can't even recreate the Mongol Empires' collapse into the 4(well 3 on the CK2 map) Khanates after Genghis's death(Nomads in general need some work to help recreate how fragile their power structures tended to be, I for one would argue that it should be possible to have independent King and Duke level Nomads who can swear fealty to stronger nomads or upgrade themselves to higher ranks with enough prestige and/or population)

 

[BrokenSky]

Midas Touched, Genius, and Possessed is my guess at what he'll get. Apparently those are all in there!

Just tried exporting the game to the current EU4 build, it turns out the guy is 140 and dies within a month. The game is taking his birthday and interpreting it as the date he was inaugurated, thereby adding a few more years onto him. Might end up having to play the game for a few more years so his heir (who is also a Midas Touched Genius) can take over.

Yeah this is an old bug. I remember a lot of my older CK2->EUIV conversions where every character would convert over as an heirless ancient. It tended make it so that suddenly one dynasty would be ruling half of Europe due to royal marriages.

 

[Atlantians]

but it could also be explained that the Mongol's success in Europe was because they DIDN'T conquer China having instead focused on the West, allowing a strong Song, Tang, or some other non-historical Dynasty China free of Mongol invasion and subjugation.

What? The Mongols were very successful in the west and also conquered China.

My suggestions are based on alternate histories following what actually happened, as well as in game mechanics.

Your response doesn't seem very conversant with Mongol history, since what I described in point 6 is simply a variation on what actually happened, with a player controlled Mongol leader maintaining centralized control over the East and West, rather than splitting into 4-6 different khanates.

At best you could have a Mongol Dynasty rule China, but not have it be an integrated part of the Mongol Empire.

Whatever. Why are you nitpicking what many other posters saw as good ideas on my part?

in the end, while I agree that the events of CK2 should effect China and the rest of the Far East, it is simply to complex a thing to have included until the time that those regions themselves are part of CK2; something that may never happen, or if it does it would be CK2's final epic DLC before the work on CK3 starts(where China will hopefully be included from the start)

I mean you can't even recreate the Mongol Empires' collapse into the 4(well 3 on the CK2 map) Khanates after Genghis's death(Nomads in general need some work to help recreate how fragile their power structures tended to be, I for one would argue that it should be possible to have independent King and Duke level Nomads who can swear fealty to stronger nomads or upgrade themselves to higher ranks with enough prestige and/or population)

Oh, this is why you were nitpicking; you were just setting up for your own plug of China in CKII or CKIII rather than providing a constructive response to another poster.

Poor form.

The ideas I put forward are not difficult to implement and would greatly benefit the gameplay.

 

[Keizer Harm]

What? The Mongols were very successful in the west and also conquered China.

My suggestions are based on alternate histories following what actually happened, as well as in game mechanics.

Your response doesn't seem very conversant with Mongol history, since what I described in point 6 is simply a variation on what actually happened, with a player controlled Mongol leader maintaining centralized control over the East and West, rather than splitting into 4-6 different khanates.



Whatever. Why are you nitpicking what many other posters saw as good ideas on my part?



Oh, this is why you were nitpicking; you were just setting up for your own plug of China in CKII or CKIII rather than providing a constructive response to another poster.

Poor form.

The ideas I put forward are not difficult to implement and would greatly benefit the gameplay.

I like your idea, @Atlantians, but you are acting completely disrespectful here. He's just a guy with a different opinion from yours, and he made some fair points too.

 

[Rip Off Productions]

What? The Mongols were very successful in the west and also conquered China.

ah, sorry, I thought when you said "vary successful in Europe" that you meant something far beyond the historical conquests, like taking the vast majority of the HRE or even France and Iberia, where you could argue that maintaining those territories let China slip free or never fall to them in the first place...

The reason I didn't want China as part of the Mongol Empire is because it would make the biggest blob on the map even bigger sense your purposed requirement for them getting that land was them having maintained their power on the CK2 side of the map.

Oh, this is why you were nitpicking; you were just setting up for your own plug of China in CKII or CKIII rather than providing a constructive response to another poster.

Poor form.

is it poor form to bring up that the best way to show how China is effected by the alternate history of a CK2 campaign would be for China to be in the game? sure it's somewhat off topic, but it's still a legitimate point.

I suppose a middle ground would be for the Mongols to get pop-up events about the goings-on in the Eastern parts of their Empire, and then have skill/RNG checks to set up flags for the converter's handling of off-map provinces and tags... but I think we'd all agree that that would be a cheap way of fixing this problem.

 

[adriankowaty]

It's highly dependent on where the renaissance spawns - if it spawns in Asia then an Asian country till assume the role of Portugal (unless you as the player does it first), European nations suitable for colonization will colonize too, of course. In my test game Korea reached America by going Taiwan -> Micronesian islands -> Hawaii -> California, an alternate and fairly exciting route. I also had a game where a converted India went Ceylon -> Andamans -> Philippines -> Micronesian Islands -> Hawaii -> California and a game where the united Japan went directly for Alaska -> California!


Merchant republics and OPM's with a port will probably be weighted up for naval ideas, it's all fully scriptable and moddable too.
The Sunset Invasion setup doesn't support RNW.


All religions should have something exciting, most of them make use of Fervor or Aspects though.


The only consistently different area compared with the default 1444 setup is Arabia. It's generally more developed, as it's much more unlikely for them to get absolutely stomped by Mongols in CK2 than happened historically. In general Scandinavia and Russia are very poor, without player involvement. The setup varies a lot between game to game though, I just finished a game where I got Kola to get Paris's development and Finnmark to get London's! Getting high EU4 development is a really fun sub-goal to aim for in your CK2 games.


You can mod a lot of it! I would even dare say most of it.

Excuse me for curiosity, but what with provinces which are merged/divided between CK II and EU IV? I'm playing a SP game which (currently) Vestisland and Autisland are in player domain (Vestisland is also my capital) and the're richer than for example Constantinople. Will this "CK II development" be merged in calculations and EU's Iceland province will get development greater than Constantinople in EU or only one "part" of province matter in Converter?

 

[Sunspawn]

Iceland is two provinces in EU4 bud. I suggest checking your facts before asking questions based on them.

 

[adriankowaty]

Iceland is two provinces in EU4 bud. I suggest checking your facts before asking questions based on them.

My apologies.
I was asking for this because in my last converted game (with capital in Zemgale, covering EU's Riga and Curland provinces) capital province was rather poor.

 

[Wagonlitz]

1) No Mongols, weak Europe: Song China.

2) No Mongols, strong Europe: Tang China.

Why would a strong Europe lead to Tang not falling? That doesn't make sense to me, but perhaps I am ignorant of some fact.

7) Collapsed but successful Mongols with a weak Europe: Ming Dynasty as is the case now.

What if collapsed, but successful Mongols with a strong Europe?

At best you could have a Mongol Dynasty rule China, but not have it be an integrated part of the Mongol Empire.

Why shouldn't it be possible to recreate the actual Mongol Empire?

 

[BrokenSky]

@Atlantians doesn't the converter already change the situation with the mongols based off whether they touch the eastern board edge or exist at all or not?

This post:

I managed to question Groogy quickly and this is what he had to say:

says that, doesn't it? (the bit is in quote marks in the post so quoting it doesn't repeat it, but it's Groogy's answer to q.3 I think?)

 

[Ulfing]

Why would a strong Europe lead to Tang not falling? That doesn't make sense to me, but perhaps I am ignorant of some fact.

It really wouldn't. Tang was on the way out since the An Lushan rebellion. The issue with Jiedushi lords was out of control and it was only a matter of time. It could really only be countered by visionary leadership (but even then that might just be postponing it, like the Alexiad), not a strong Europe.

 

[Wagonlitz]

@Atlantians doesn't the converter already change the situation with the mongols based off whether they touch the eastern board edge or exist at all or not?

This post:

says that, doesn't it? (the bit is in quote marks in the post so quoting it doesn't repeat it, but it's Groogy's answer to q.3 I think?)

It does; but that doesn't include China. It only means that the Mongolian tags in actual Mongolia are under the Mongolian Empire in EU4.

 

[Ferrero]

@Darkrenown Sorry, I couldn't find it in the thread: will you address the insaley high chance of female heirs in converted games? It feels like that every other ruler is a woman once you convert, even though you played with agnatic for centuries.

 

[Sopbucket]

Iceland is two provinces in EU4 bud. I suggest checking your facts before asking questions based on them.

Bad example with Iceland, but I'm also curious about how this works in general. Ireland for instance has 13 provinces in CK2, and only 9 in EU4. How are they supposed to line up? Are we combining provinces in CK2 and taking the average development score between them to get the development ranking for a single province in EU4? Are there regions of the map in EU4 that have more provinces compared to the same region in CK2? How does development get resolved in that case?

 

[Wagonlitz]

Are there regions of the map in EU4 that have more provinces compared to the same region in CK2?

Yes; Denmark is an example. (CKII has 8 provinces where EU4 has 10.)