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CK2 Dev Diary #51: The Roof of the World

Hi folks!

PDXCON 2017 is over and it was fantastic to meet so many of you! I got a lot of interesting suggestions and feedback on our games, including, of course, CK2. So, a special thank you goes out to those of you who were there!

Now then, let’s talk a bit about those ugly gray areas on the map; the wastelands. Aesthetically, I’ve never liked the gray color of wasteland provinces in the non-Terrain map modes, so I took some time to change it so that wasteland is now always shown as Terrain, regardless of map mode (we might add options for this in the settings. Let me know what you think!)

Northern Siberia and the Sahara deserve to be wasteland; it’s difficult to do anything more about that (we’ve already twisted and manipulated the map projection, etc.) However, the Himalayas and the vast Tibetan plateau are a different story… Though mountainous, the region contains many important population centers and religious sites and has a rich history of interaction with China, India and Central Asia. In essence, the only reason it’s a “wasteland” in CK2 is that we haven’t prioritized doing it justice.

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Tibet, 1066. Note that any green Coat of Arms are placeholders.


I’ve never been happy with the way the eastern edge of the map feels like the edge of the world when, in fact, it should be a dynamic hub connecting at least four major civilizations (China, India, the Steppe Nomads and the Islamic world.) Well, the time to do something about that is now! In our working build, we have added the necessary provinces, new cultures (Bodpa, Tangut and Nepalese), new religions (Bön and Khurmazta), and title history for the entire region.

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The Himalayan mountains, 867.

The Bön religion is a pagan faith which functionally has many similarities with the Romuvan and Buddhist religions: It is very hard to convert, has access to Gavelkind, and unlike other pagan faiths it can not be reformed (though this might change in the future.) Instead, it starts off with the ability to designate heirs, just like Buddhists. It has also got a Patron Deity system like that of the Hindus and the “defensive” Pagans.

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Purang, one of the Bön religion's Holy Sites.


In addition, we are looking over the great Muslim conquerors (Sabuktigin, Seljuq and Timur) to make sure they usually rise, toning down the Indian Holy Orders and making them creatable (rather than existing from the start.) We also plan to add or expand on adventurers for more generic conquests into and out of the subcontinent especially.

There is more, but that would be revealing too much too soon. :) Stay tuned for the next dev diary!

EDIT: Todays livestreams are cancelled due to attrition from PDXCON.
 
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Forgive me if I'm incorrect, but wasn't Tibet under Chinese control for at least some of the CK2 timeline? How will that be represented?
Only during the Mongol Yuan period, and they are rather tricky to describe as 'Chinese'. Tibet has only been ruled by China since the Qing Dynasty's takeover, well outside of CKII's timeline.

Actually in CKII times the real problem comes from the reverse: Tibet vassalised Nan Zhao in what is now southwest China, sacked the Tang Dynasty capital and drove China out of the Tarim Basin.
 
Sorry but the east has gotten a ton of attention it's had two major expansions one of which is relatively recent
I know that it's had attention in the past, I'm just glad that it's getting more; obviously there's Tibet, but it also sounds like they're working on India and fixing how it currently seems disconnected from the rest of the world.
 
Only during the Mongol Yuan period, and they are rather tricky to describe as 'Chinese'. Tibet has only been ruled by China since the Qing Dynasty's takeover, well outside of CKII's timeline.

Actually in CKII times the real problem comes from the reverse: Tibet vassalised Nan Zhao in what is now southwest China, sacked the Tang Dynasty capital and drove China out of the Tarim Basin.

Well, under the control of the 'Chinese Empire', then, if you prefer. One can argue the exact status of the Yuan dynasty, but it's not really disputable that, to put it in CK2 terms, they held the e_china title and had k_tibet as a vassal for some of CK2's timeframe, so I'm concerned about how that relationship will be implemented.
 
I always hated that grey patch in tibet so this DLC is great! I am wondering why the Himalayas are passable though. They were the big barrier between India proper and TIbet/China. Maybe only a small passage near Kamarupa would be better?
 
Horse Lords was almost two years ago... and it's almost been more than three years since Rajas of India.

Yeah and cm and tog both gave new world wide maps.

Wol monks and mystics and the reapers due were all general expand.

The Far East has had its due, I'm hoping we see an economic/west Africa expac two areas that are woefully underdeveloped or a crusade focused expansion because the crusades feel really unpolished
 
Yeah and cm and tog both gave new world wide maps.

Wol monks and mystics and the reapers due were all general expand.

The Far East has had its due, I'm hoping we see an economic/west Africa expac two areas that are woefully underdeveloped or a crusade focused expansion because the crusades feel really unpolished

How is Central Asia the Far East? That's China, Korea, and Japan. Also Abrahamic religions are the only ones in MM that got three societies - Monastic Orders, Hermetics, and Demon Worshipers. Every other religion only got one or two societies. The graphical DLC was also exclusively focused on Europe.
 
I personally can't wait for this. Very much looking forward to throwing moneys at you guys again.
 
Thank you! This was badly needed. Also glad to see the Turkic warlords finally get some love now. Rarely ever saw them succeeding in anything, and in most of my games Hindu kingdoms actually press into Afghanistan and Iran rather than the other way around.
 
Well, under the control of the 'Chinese Empire', then, if you prefer. One can argue the exact status of the Yuan dynasty, but it's not really disputable that, to put it in CK2 terms, they held the e_china title and had k_tibet as a vassal for some of CK2's timeframe, so I'm concerned about how that relationship will be implemented.
As I pointed out earlier, the Yuan at least control Mongolia in-game already, so extending their realm into Tibet won't be awkward.
 
Well, under the control of the 'Chinese Empire', then, if you prefer. One can argue the exact status of the Yuan dynasty, but it's not really disputable that, to put it in CK2 terms, they held the e_china title and had k_tibet as a vassal for some of CK2's timeframe, so I'm concerned about how that relationship will be implemented.
I suspect we are talking a titular e_china which uses the "make Tributary" CB on Tibet, or events to that effect.
 
An off-map China which functions like a pope establishing tributaries and whose levies can be raised like a holy order when its tributaries are under attack?

Good idea! An off-map Chinese emperor character, Chinese tributaries getting established, maybe even Chinese invasions from off-map as well. This sounds like a cool way to have China without actually having China on the map. Allowing Chinese influence to spread across the map, or wipe it out. Chinese religions and Chinese culture characters too if they want to be ambitious.

Heck, what if the Incan Emperor is also like that if you have Sunset invasion active? An off-map Inca character and Incan tributary states that can help you fend off the Aztecs but who also demand tribute?
 
As far as I know Tibet was an empire in 769 but was largely irrelevant afterwards until they were incorporated into the Mongol Yuan dynasty, at which point Dalai Lamas came into being.

I don't get this, are you saying it would not be worth letting the Tibetan empire be reformable? As I see it this is clearly for players.

I would love it if they added a bit of content to west africa, it is one of my favorite starts
 
Almost forgot, but for the love of Zun, please rework Central Asia post-1220, because it's sorely lacking, both the Chagatai, Tarim Basin and especially Afghanistan (Kabulistan is even without any character after the last Khwarazemid Sultan).
 
Cheers for the DD Doomdark and the extra info rageair :). The fleshing out of the Eastern edge of the map is intriguing, it does make one wonder what might be coming up in future diaries :D. Even if the answer to that is not much at all, more depth to that neck of the woods is most welcome :).