CK2 Dev Diary #55: Nurture vs Nuisance

[SigurdStormhand]

Hello everyone!

Yes folks, it’s time to answer that age old question: can human behavior be nurtured, or is it too much of a nuisance? Educating children in CK2 is a powerful tool to sculpt your future character and supporting cast, but it can also become a bit of nuisance, at least if you have Conclave. This issue has been on my radar for awhile, but we finally got around to addressing it with a three pronged assault. First, since children don’t actually need an assigned Guardian or a set Childhood or Education Focus, we added a Game Rule controlling when you get Education Alerts; for all children, your close relatives, or just your own character and your primary heir. Secondly, there really isn’t any reason why you should not be able to assign a Guardian for children below the age of 6 - it’s just annoying to have to wait for a specific birthday. So... now you can. Lastly, and probably most significantly, being the default “Educator” for all children at court means you can get spammed with a lot of upbringing events concerning kids you don’t care about. Thus, we added a new “Honorary Title” called Teacher. The Court Teacher becomes the default Educator for all kids at court that don’t have a specific Guardian (so you can still make yourself the Guardian for two kids you care about and get their upbringing events, for example.) Together, these changes make upbringing far less of a hassle.

View attachment 278047

View attachment 278046

But enough about that; time to say a few words about the next patch! We’ve been keeping a close eye on your feedback and have decided to release an Open Beta patch (probably next week) which should fix the worst outstanding issues and tide you over the summer. The patch should hopefully address most of your concerns. We will not go into full detail for all points now (we’ll save that for when it comes out), but we’re hoping to have solutions for the following issues:

• Infinite Epidemics
• Tribal Inheritance Issues (Tribal rulers turning Feudal on succession)
• AI Pathfinding during Crusades
• Soul Corruption events appearing for non-Satanists
• Secret Cult Frequency - For this one we did a lot of testing & balancing, hopefully with the following changes they shouldn’t appear too frequently:
  • When a Secret Religious Cult reveals itself, all members will join in the conversion instead of just the ones in the same realm
  • The AI is now more often unsuccessful in recruiting new members to Secret Religious Cults
  • Priests, Zealous characters and Paranoid characters are now much less likely to join a secret cult
  • Characters accused of Apostasy (with the modifier) can no longer Induce Sympathy, Induct or Invite characters to Secret Cults
  • The cooldown between inviting/inducting characters into Secret Cults increased to 10 years from 5
  • The AI is now less likely to recruit/induct characters into cults if they are in a realm without a player
  • Lowered the maximum amount of members the AI can recruit into Secret Religious Cults to a more modest number (from 370 to 91)
  • Characters in Secret Religious Cults can now only use Prepare Grounds in counties they or their vassals own
  • The AI is now much less inclined to create a secret religious cult just because their liege is a player

That’s all for now! Stay tuned for next week’s dev diary, and be sure to check out the livestream today, starting at 17:00 CET (not 16 this time.)

It's great to hear there's a patch incoming and that we will have more control over how involved we need to be with education.

I'd like to make a suggestion though - which I think is especially important in light of this new "Teacher" role.

If a child starts getting bad traits you, as liege, should be able to take over their education and redirect it towards something they're better suited for.

More than once I have seen a child with "rowdy" and "wilful" child stuck with an Intrigue Education - leaving what might have become an excellent commander as an Amateurish Plotter.

As liege when you see something going sideways you should have an option to intervene for the good of the child's future.

 

[CatilinamSum]

China wouldn't need 'far far more provinces than RoI'. The population of China was around the same as India at this time. And remeber, that we already have a large part of modern day China on the map. Mongolia, Tibet (with Qinghai), Xinjiang and Western Gansu are already on the map with the new version. The rest of China needs in no way as much provinces as RoI added. If they add to much provinces China would be way to detailed compared to the rest of the map which would also be inbalanced.

For mainland China, sure. But if you add China, you've essentially got to add Manchuria, Korea, Japan, and Indochina to create a complete map of East Asia. Otherwise, why bother?

As great as a well-done Crusader Mings would be, I don't think people seem to grasp the scale of it sometimes. For a China expansion to feel right, they'd have to add about twenty new cultures, ten new religions, and a tremendous number of provinces. This is all to say nothing of the new mechanics players would expect from such content. I just don't see it happening.

 

[TheDungen]

For mainland China, sure. But if you add China, you've essentially got to add Manchuria, Korea, Japan, and Indochina, to create a complete map of East Asia. Otherwise, why bother?

As great as a well-done Crusader Mings would be, I don't think people seem to grasp the scale of it sometimes. For a China expansion to feel right, they'd have to add about twenty new cultures, ten new religions, and a tremendous number of provinces. This is all to say nothing of the new mechanics players would expect from such content. I just don't see it happening.

Well Manchuria wouldn't be super problematic since it's basically steppe again right? But the rest of the areas you mentioned are densely populated even compared to Europe.

 

[CatilinamSum]

Well Manchuria wouldn't be super problematic since it's basically steppe again right? But the rest of the areas you mentioned are densely populated even compared to Europe.

Right. Meaning that CKII, post-China, would be at least 50% larger... perhaps even twice as large.

 

[icedt729]

China wouldn't need 'far far more provinces than RoI'. The population of China was around the same as India at this time. And remeber, that we already have a large part of modern day China on the map. Mongolia, Tibet (with Qinghai), Xinjiang and Western Gansu are already on the map with the new version. The rest of China needs in no way as much provinces as RoI added. If they add to much provinces China would be way to detailed compared to the rest of the map which would also be inbalanced.

Only the most sparsely-populated parts of modern China are on the current map and China proper would need a far greater holding density to be anything close to realistic.

 

[Thure]

Only the most sparsely-populated parts of modern China are on the current map and China proper would need a far greater holding density to be anything close to realistic.

China proper is around the same size of India (including modern Pakistan). They can't give China to many provinces, because otherwise it would be inbalanced. And China proper had around the same population as India during the Game era

'It has been estimated that the population was about 100 million in 1600 and remained nearly static until the late 19th century.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India#History

'On the basis of the available historical evidence, K.S. Lal concluded that the population of Indian subcontinent in 1000 was about 200 million and in 1500 was about 170 million. He says, however, that "any study of the population of the pre-census times can be based only on estimates, and estimates by their very nature tend to be tentative.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

China was between 60 million and 110 million.
http://www.china-profile.com/data/fig_pop_0-2050.htm

It's not easy to give accurate numbers of course and they are just estimated. But China and India were around the same size by population. So China would in no way need to have more provinces than RoI added. Especially since China was more centralized less provinces with more holdings would be more accurate than many provinces.

Of course this is only for vanilla CK2. A more accurate map like my or HIP would of course need way more provinces in China. But we're talking about vanilla CK2 which isn't super accurate in any part of the map.

 

[icedt729]

And Europe's population in 1600 was 78 million, significantly lower than either India or China. https://faculty.history.wisc.edu/sommerville/351/351-012.htm

RoI did not give India a number of provinces or holdings equivalent to its population. Ergo if China gets the same number of provinces as RoI India, then it will be underrepresented.

 

[CrackdToothGrin]

That's not a Doge portrait.

View attachment 278793

This is a Doge Portrait.

 

[Foreign Alien]

Add China as map or don't add China at all. If this is seriously an off map China mechanic I'm done with CK as a franchise. They clearly do not know what they are doing.

 

[TheDungen]

China proper is around the same size of India (including modern Pakistan). They can't give China to many provinces, because otherwise it would be inbalanced. And China proper had around the same population as India during the Game era

'It has been estimated that the population was about 100 million in 1600 and remained nearly static until the late 19th century.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_India#History

'On the basis of the available historical evidence, K.S. Lal concluded that the population of Indian subcontinent in 1000 was about 200 million and in 1500 was about 170 million. He says, however, that "any study of the population of the pre-census times can be based only on estimates, and estimates by their very nature tend to be tentative.'
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Growth_of_Muslim_Population_in_Medieval_India

China was between 60 million and 110 million.
http://www.china-profile.com/data/fig_pop_0-2050.htm

It's not easy to give accurate numbers of course and they are just estimated. But China and India were around the same size by population. So China would in no way need to have more provinces than RoI added. Especially since China was more centralized less provinces with more holdings would be more accurate than many provinces.

Of course this is only for vanilla CK2. A more accurate map like my or HIP would of course need way more provinces in China. But we're talking about vanilla CK2 which isn't super accurate in any part of the map.

Except to add china you need to add a load of other stuff, which amounts to almost as much as china does. And you are missing the point where yes india and hcina are fairly equal but they're both far more populated than Europe is.

And Europe's population in 1600 was 78 million, significantly lower than either India or China. https://faculty.history.wisc.edu/sommerville/351/351-012.htm

RoI did not give India a number of provinces or holdings equivalent to its population. Ergo if China gets the same number of provinces as RoI India, then it will be underrepresented.

Exactly. Yes China and India are fairly equal but if you make them so in game you have them both underrepresented, two wrong's don't make a right.

 

[Slime99]

All hail the emperor Dogemagne of Franccia, Germany, Italy and Bavaria! Long live the emperor!

 

[VoodooEconomist]

Pawsome!

 

[Nameless_Ensign]

Are we ever going to get any kind of potion crafting aside from the stress-relieving potions for Hermetics?

 

[Ben84]

But remember the enterprise you're talking about.
So an expansion never comes alone

 

[Larva]

When this patch will go out live? With next expansion or earlier?

 

[CatilinamSum]

When this patch will go out live? With next expansion or earlier?

Considering that this is the same patch that includes the added provinces, I'm almost certain we won't see the new content until the next expansion.

However, they did they'll be shipping a bug fix patch/Secret Religion fix patch to tide us over for the summer.

 

[Slaughter]

X, and an alien looking skulls. Obviously turns on the tactical combat map.

Open X-COM: Crusader Kings. Because PirateZ wans't wacky enough.

The Pope calls for a Crusade to purge the Sectoid infidels from the Holy Land!

 

[MalfunctionM1Ke]

Hello everyone!

Yes folks, it’s time to answer that age old question: can human behavior be nurtured, or is it too much of a nuisance? Educating children in CK2 is a powerful tool to sculpt your future character and supporting cast, but it can also become a bit of nuisance, at least if you have Conclave. This issue has been on my radar for awhile, but we finally got around to addressing it with a three pronged assault. First, since children don’t actually need an assigned Guardian or a set Childhood or Education Focus, we added a Game Rule controlling when you get Education Alerts; for all children, your close relatives, or just your own character and your primary heir. Secondly, there really isn’t any reason why you should not be able to assign a Guardian for children below the age of 6 - it’s just annoying to have to wait for a specific birthday. So... now you can. Lastly, and probably most significantly, being the default “Educator” for all children at court means you can get spammed with a lot of upbringing events concerning kids you don’t care about. Thus, we added a new “Honorary Title” called Teacher. The Court Teacher becomes the default Educator for all kids at court that don’t have a specific Guardian (so you can still make yourself the Guardian for two kids you care about and get their upbringing events, for example.) Together, these changes make upbringing far less of a hassle.

Thats a nice idea to have an educator. But I have a few questions.
Most of the time, i hand out counties and duchies to my infantile sons (because i dont have any other relatives), which then found their own court.
Would they still be affected by my teacher or have one of their own?

it would also be great if I would get an alert if my kids educator died or having alerts for uneducated dynasty-kids.
I really dont like it to find out that my genius nephew got raised with a heritage focus by an inferior educator, so more alerts about that kind of thing would be great. Also dont set an educator on the childs birth automatically. I want to have this all in my hand.

Pls keep in mind that some of us dont think that the education is a nuisance.
I, for one, actually quite enjoy it and i would like to have it go into even more depth.

Keep up the good work, guys.

 

[Ben84]

we added a Game Rule controlling when you get Education Alerts; for all children, your close relatives, or just your own character and your primary heir.

Please add a fourth choice! : for all children, for dynasts, your close relatives, or just your own character and your primary heir

Anyway, very nice to see this issue reworked.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

Thats a nice idea to have an educator. But I have a few questions.
Most of the time, i hand out counties and duchies to my infantile sons (because i dont have any other relatives), which then found their own court.
Would they still be affected by my teacher or have one of their own?

it would also be great if I would get an alert if my kids educator died or having alerts for uneducated dynasty-kids.
I really dont like it to find out that my genius nephew got raised with a heritage focus by an inferior educator, so more alerts about that kind of thing would be great. Also dont set an educator on the childs birth automatically. I want to have this all in my hand.

Pls keep in mind that some of us dont think that the education is a nuisance.
I, for one, actually quite enjoy it and i would like to have it go into even more depth.

Keep up the good work, guys.

If you're looking to set the educator for all children, then the teacher probably won't affect you. Most of these new features are for players who don't want to deal with children, or just set one educator and then forget about the whole thing.