CK2 Dev Diary #78 - Polishing up the Map

[yezhanquan]

Bohemia can be strengthened by adding holdings and holding slots.

It derserves to be a powerfull kingdom.

I welcome more pasture land.

 

[martas33]

Good suggestion and helpfull suggestion.
Though I would have few notes:
1) I think that Moravian provinces should be Olomouc, Brno and Znojmo, since these 3 were the seats of Moravian Premyslid "principalities", and then possibly Opava. Jihlava was important mining city, but its political influence was way behind the 3 mentioned. Opava would deserve its province in case that Moravia gets its 4th province added.

2) Kutná Hora / Kuttenberg should not be separate province. Its importance starts in the 14th century, so quite late for CK2. That area on border of Bohemia and Moravia between Prague and Moravia should be covered by Hradec province. In order not to make it too large, I think the area of the north of Bohemia should belong to Litomerice/Leitmeritz. Then on the western bank of Elbe there could be province of Žatec to cover the north-west Bohemia. Žatec has been one of the most important cities in Bohemia since the very early periods, so it would be less anachronistic.

3) the south is problematic, since there is no natural center which could be dated before mid 13th century. It would look weird to have province of Budejovice in 1066, or even more in 867/769, when Budejovice was founded 200 (400/500) years later. Since all local centres (Netolice, Prachen, Chynov and Doudleby) were only small towns none of which had ever held any importance, I would suggest to call the province South Bohemia instead. Its starting baronies should be the 4 centers with perhaps Vyšší Brod and then Budejovice/Budweis and Rosenberg/Rožmberk to rise as local baronies later on.

So basically the province setup for Bohemia could be
Praha (center)
Plzen (west)
South Bohemia/Jižní Čechy (south)
Hradec (east and north east)
Litomerice (north)
if they'd be willing to add one more (6th) county to d_Bohemia, it should be
Zatec (north, west of Elbe) with Litomerice being moved little eastwerds

Yes, Zatec looks better than idea of Kuttenberg province. I also thought about name of Domazlice and the option "South Bohemia" is maybe the best. It also have potential for adding important bohemian houses - Vítkovci (later divided to House of Rosenberg, Hradec, Krumlov etc. - south Bohemia), Hrabišici (cca northeast Bohemia), Ronovci (cca northeast Bohemia), Markvratici (north Bohemia) and Drslavici (west and southwest Bohemia). At least two or three controlled large domain similar to CKII's county.

@martas33 & @elvain, wouldn't Bohemia benefit from a separate, albeit smallish province of Glatz/Kladsko/Klodzko? As for the current Znojmo province in Austria, you better add a Traungau (Oberösterreich) and a Österreich (Niederösterreich) province instead.

Kladsko could be interesting option, but as said elvain, it it is too small. And for example province of Zatec could be more needed.

 

[Basterbane]

I am at a loss after reading this DD. Was about to jump into Poland game and then I see a rework is being done. Oh what should I do with my life now? Tried a little bit of Karen and I'm doing Ok. My William the Bastard stayed that way once since King of France got wed to princess of England (war ended). I had to take his crown and conquer England the hard way. Next attempts went nowhere since I can't seem to find support in plot for Kingdom of France.
Only one DLC and it's still so hard to choose who to start a game with.

I can't seem to make the game notice that Steam is running in the background and can't into achievements. Probably would be best to seek help in tech support forum.

 

[Wenceslaus II.]

Glatz/Kladsko/Klodzko was in fact the only region within Bohemia which had lasting status of separate unit within borders of Bohemia

What about Žitava/Zittau? Also, thanks for inviting me in the discussion.

Why would it be too much? Kingdom of Bohemia was a major player in the Medieval European politics considering its constant meddling in German and Polish affairs, its wealth and its economic prowess. I believe if there is any country that the game does not do its justice, it is Bohemia. Take into account that while Bohemia has 8 provinces, Wales (without Cornwall) has 6 and Ireland 13 (which is ludicrous in relation to Bohemia). Finland (without Estonia), such poor and backward piece of wood (no offence, I'm talking about Middle Ages) has 9 provinces... Neither of them deserve to be more powerful or nearly as much potent as Bohemia was.

I think that the problem with that is that the duchy of Bohemia would have too many counties and you can't split it because that would be ahistorical.

 

[martas33]

What about Žitava/Zittau? Also, thanks for inviting me in the discussion.

Žitava is in Lužice/Lusatia (in-game Lausitz or Luzycka), not in "core" Bohemia

 

[Wenceslaus II.]

Žitava is in Lužice/Lusatia (in-game Lausitz or Luzycka), not in "core" Bohemia

It became a part of Lusatia during the hussite wars, because it stayed catholic and over time distanced itself from Bohemia and sort of just passed over to Lusatia. But during the ck2 timeline it was a part of Bohemia.
You can just look at the map you posted earlier.

 

[elvain]

Why would it be too much? Kingdom of Bohemia was a major player in the Medieval European politics considering its constant meddling in German and Polish affairs, its wealth and its economic prowess. I believe if there is any country that the game does not do its justice, it is Bohemia. Take into account that while Bohemia has 8 provinces, Wales (without Cornwall) has 6 and Ireland 13 (which is ludicrous in relation to Bohemia). Finland (without Estonia), such poor and backward piece of wood (no offence, I'm talking about Middle Ages) has 9 provinces... Neither of them deserve to be more powerful or nearly as much potent as Bohemia was.

While I can't but agree about the power, wealth and other arguments, I still don't think this is all what matters and I don't think Bohemia should have many more provinces.
All the other regions, except perhaps Finland, were fragmented, while Bohemia was for the entire CK2 period held by one single person and only its Moravian territories belonged to side lines of Premyslid dynasty. All other local feudal rulers were in position of CK2 barons and except perhaps one or two exceptional noblemen they never held a territory of whole county... and even those never presented a challenge which could mean splitting from Bohemia.
Therefore I think that Bohemia should have as few provinces as possible, but all of them should have much higher number of baronies than anything around.

OTOH now, when Poland got additional 5 provinces, I do believe that Bohemia (and Moravia) could get one or two in order to ballance it. Those could be Opava for Moravia and Zatec for Bohemia... or perhaps Kladsko

Well Ireland is splitted by different nations and Finland is tribal and also divided. Although, I get your point and Bohemia could indeed use a couple more holdings.

With this I agree. Instead of adding provinces I believe that each Bohemian county should get at least one additional barony... some of them even two baronies.

Yes, Zatec looks better than idea of Kuttenberg province. I also thought about name of Domazlice and the option "South Bohemia" is maybe the best. It also have potential for adding important bohemian houses - Vítkovci (later divided to House of Rosenberg, Hradec, Krumlov etc. - south Bohemia), Hrabišici (cca northeast Bohemia), Ronovci (cca northeast Bohemia), Markvratici (north Bohemia) and Drslavici (west and southwest Bohemia). At least two or three controlled large domain similar to CKII's county.

I don't remember exactly but I thought that at least some of these indeed do exist in the files. But as barons. I'm not sure though. I just remember that I have researched and added the Vršovci dynasty (by far the most and perhaps only recorded important noble family in Bohemia before late 12th century) to SWMH mod.

As for South Bohemia I agree.

What about Žitava/Zittau? Also, thanks for inviting me in the discussion.

Žitava is in Lužice/Lusatia (in-game Lausitz or Luzycka), not in "core" Bohemia

Žitava/Zittau is the same case like Kladsko/Glatz. It was originaly part of Bohemia propper, but kater eroded out of it due to geographical barriers. Zitava was center of 'Záhvozdí' which was a micro region now part of Lusatia.. and its territory is actuslly even smaller than of Kladsko region.
But same issue here. OTOH if Zitava would get its province it could legitimately be later held by the Ronovci dynasty which pretty much controlled that area just near Zitava

 

[martas33]

It became a part of Lusatia during the hussite wars, because it stayed catholic and over time distanced itself from Bohemia and sort of just passed over to Lusatia. But during the ck2 timeline it was a part of Bohemia.
You can just look at the map you posted earlier.

You're right, I mixed up Žitava and Zhořelec...

 

[KacperMaster15]

Add some provinces for Poland in EUIV.

 

[Ksiendzu]

That will be more historical. Ziemia sieradzko-łęczycka should be one province in game. Łęczyca is not Kujawy.
I had to write about this region when I was studying history

 

[Wenceslaus II.]

I think, I found a reasonable solution (warning: drew without any model=not exactly accurate.):

 

[Scarelios]

I've just noticed a bug... playing as Asturias, well Hispania at this points. I am part of the hermetic society and are lunatic. I got the horse event ( Glitterhoof ) and when you make him an Apprentice his portrait is kind of awkward.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

I've just noticed a bug...

https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?forums/crusader-kings-ii-bug-reports.680/

..or post a thread in the general forum with relevant info to discuss if its a bug or not.

 

[elvain]

I think, I found a reasonable solution (warning: drew without any model=not exactly accurate.):

I don't think it's a good idea to split the duchy of Bohemia in 2. It would not strenghten Bohemia, but weaken it instead. Especially if the added duchy has only 2 counties. From gameplay perspective, the holder of the other duchy would easily declare himself independent from the Premyslids and disable (or harden) their path to kingship.

Also, Vršovci held castellanies of Žatec and Litoměřice, but historical records don't mention other (in that region). In each of the suggested counties, Žatec and Litoměřice, there were - at the time - another at least 2-3 castellanies in each, so that would terribly distort reality.
Btw, here is the Vršovic dynasty as I added it to SWMH mod.

If there are provinces to be added to k_Bohemia, it should IMHO be only 1 to each duchy - and it would be Opava to join Olomouc, Brno and Znojmo as 4th Moravian county, and Zatec or Kladsko to join Praha, Plzen, South Bohemia/Doudleby, Hradec and Litomerice as 6th Bohemian county
The major strenghtening of Bohemia (to ballance stronger Poland - if added provinces make Poland stronger - that's still questionable! Despite added provinces, the amount of baronies may remain and thus the military power would not increase much) should happen via added baronies inside provinces, not via adding more provinces, which - as opposed to reality - would erode the authority of central dukes or kings in Prague, which has never ever been contested not even by the most powerfull of Bohemian lords.

 

[Ruisuki]

what do you think the dlc is gonna be about?

 

[Snow Crystal]

what do you think the dlc is gonna be about?

Bears.

 

[avrelian]

Tribal needs some boost

I have just conquered the world (including China) by tribal lord. At the beginning this government have some drawbacks. But later on tribal lords is unstoppable.

 

[moscal]

I have just conquered the world (including China) by tribal lord. At the beginning this government have some drawbacks. But later on tribal lords is unstoppable.

Gavelkind made this impossible...

 

[avrelian]

Gavelkind made this impossible...

Unless your lord is muslim

 

[yezhanquan]

I have just conquered the world (including China) by tribal lord. At the beginning this government have some drawbacks. But later on tribal lords is unstoppable.

Tribal land is pasture land.